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OT: 270 Winchester for long range mule deer?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by len loma, Nov 11, 2007.

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  1. len loma

    len loma TS Member

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    Was out west and had some 400-500 yard shots on some exceptional mule deer. Tickled a belly at 421 yrd. Planning on going back next year better prepared. They say the 270 is a flat shooter. I don't like recoil so my 270 winchester with timney trigger works nicely. Have a 3x9x40 leopold scope that I felt was too little. Looking at a lepold Boone and croket 4 x14 x50. My buddy relentlessly say's go up to a 300 win mag with that scope. The 270 is a good gun here in Wisconsin so I will keep it. Figured if I buy a new gun with scope I am at $1800 plus. Upgrade my scope on present 270? or tip for the bigger gun? Like thoughts from some seasoned western mule deer hunters.

    thanks
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    At 500 yards a Federal Premium shell with Barnes 130 gr. bullet still has around 1200 ft.lbs. of energy. That is one hell of a shot, but placed right it would kill the animal.

    However, the difficulty lies in the 38 inches of drop you encounter there.

    I would suggest keeping the gun and getting a BDC or Mil Dot scope if you are going to be shooting at those ranges. Drop changes Quickly when you get out there so you will need to have a good range finder.

    I would not shoot 500 yards with less than an 18 power scope.

    Mildot work requires some thinking and table memorizing, A BDC might work better for you if you find one tailored to the gun/round.

    I don't know where in Wisconsin you are, but there is a 500 yard range available west of Green Bay at Shiocton.

    You can alsos adjust the PBR(point blank range) of your rig to help some with the bullet drop. It dosesn't matter if you are 7-8 inches high at 100 yds if it helps your point of impact further out.

    Mash the link for a good online ballistics calculator.

    HM
     
  3. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    pretty much
     
  4. leadvail

    leadvail Member

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    I use a Rem. 270 Mcgowan #5 22", HS stock with Leupold 3.5x10 lll. Harris bipod. You want to watch the weight, As I live and hunt at 10,000'. 400 yds.is plenty far for me. What I have seen as a problem at 300+ is the effect the wind has. Even a small breeze. 140 nosler BT, IMR4831.

    3in. High @100yd. This way Iam covered for those fast shots at 100 yd. or less and hold on top of shoulder at 400. Always on hair. I've seen just as many shot over as under.

    Watching some of the guys sighting in their ultra mags at the range and getting 2-3 in. groups at 100 yds. and then telling me they are set for 700yds makes me wonder .

    But, Iam a meat hunter having taken 20+ 2-4 pointers. I've only killed 4 30in. bucks. (a 3x4 last sun.@ 25yds.)Anyway good luck and hope you get a closer shot. Bob
     
  5. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

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    Why us anything less than a 300 wby. I live out west and have shot at several mule deer at 300-400 yards with a 90 percent success ratio. I use 180 gr. Nossler Partition bullet, powered by 86 grs. IMR 7828, for a velocity of 3250 fps. This round sighted in at 200 yds will shoot basically flat (plus or minus 4 inches) to 450 yds. It will also do a good job at 50 yards and you can kill anything you hit with it. I shot a Bull Moose at 225 yds behind the front shoulders and it dropped like a rock. Why under gun your self? Oh yes, I use a 4-12 power Redfield w/ range finder. FD
     
  6. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    You don't need a new, big gun.
    You don't need a new, big scope.
    You need to learn to shoot the combo you have at the distances you'll be shooting at game.
    Misses are caused by the shooter pointing the muzzle in the wrong place, not by inadequacies of the equipment.
     
  7. darkri

    darkri TS Member

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    I live in Colorado and have killed many deer and elk. I use a Rem 7 mag. Your 270 isnt really that much different. Its a great deer gun. The problem is not the gun or scope its the 500 yards. At that distance try to hunt your way closer and put your maximum at 400 yards. Sight your 270 in at 3 inches high at 100 yards. A mature bucks chest is around 18 inches so if he is at 400 yards hold the top of his back. From a hunter my advice is try to take good shots wounding a trophy animal may ruin things for you in the future. Get a range finder and learn your gun. If you sell the 270 Im looking for a letfhanded one Im up to draw a good antelope tag next year.
     
  8. Roger IL

    Roger IL TS Member

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    The 270 is as good as any western deer rifle and has taken it's share of elk. You must remember when attempting 400-600 Yd. shots on live game you most have a rifle that is extreeeeemly acurate. 1 1/2 inch at 100 yards becomes a problem at 400 and a real problem at 600. I think first you must get that rifle, whatever caliber, to shoot 1/2 inch groups and learn how to shoot it. If you can't, like someone else has already said," learn how to stalk". "Tickleing the belly at 400 yds." is the kind of thing that gives a lot of hunters a black eye......................Roger
     
  9. swamp rat

    swamp rat TS Member

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    You might want to check out the 270 WSM. The recoil is about the same as your 270. It does however have more range with bal very close to the 270 weatherby mag, which is a very good round on deer sized game out to 650 yrd. It will out preform the 7mm rem mag past 200 yrd. If you are looking for a bigger scope I have a Leupold 6.5 x 20 VarX III with A 40mm AO and target nobs for sale. It was used for one season on a 7mm STW it is in as new condition priced at 550.00
     
  10. Bawana

    Bawana TS Member

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    You don't like recoil? Well thats saying you like swimming but don't like to get wet. 7mm Mag is a great gun for what you are doing. 338 Win mag, 300 Win mag and some of the Weatherby cal will do the job you want. either pick one of these cal or get closer to the deer.
     
  11. BL

    BL Member

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    I live in mule deer country and am wrapping up my 51st year of hunting them.
    The .270 win. is one of the finest of deer cartridges. The best caliber is the one that you can shoot well and put the bullet where you want EVERY time. Most hunters need to improve hunting skills and learn to get into the range that they can hit exactly where they need to and make a humane kill. Many nowdays think they can make up for hunting skill with ultramags and range finders. I am sorry to say I have seen this cause gut shots and broken legs on several animals that deserve better. At long range even the slightest of air currents and errors in range estimation can cause a miss or a wounded animal. If you want to learn about long range shooting go to the prarie dog towns and go to work with your chosen rifle. I see guys out at our rifle range that have the big cannons and very few can shoot a decent group at 100 yds. so they aren't going to be very effective at 500. Just and old timers opinion that has seen a lot of big game hunting.
     
  12. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    No 270 bullets are really outstanding for long range in the wind. All the past development money has been spent on .308 caliber bullets because of their military use, as well as 7mm bullets. Hard to beat one of the 7 mags or 300 mags.

    I used to shoot a lot of long range silhouette and the Sierra Matchkings are an excellent off-the-shelf bullet.
     
  13. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I've shot deer and antelop with a Ruger M77 in 6mm Rem, but not at those yardages. I've built a .243/264 Win Mag. wildcat that I'm just itchin' to try out next year. It shoots very flat with 75 gr. bullets at 4000fps. It will be intersting...and loud.
     
  14. smokerz

    smokerz TS Member

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    Since this thread is about mule deer.

    I'm not a big game hunter, but here's a good story about a friend (now deceased) who was.

    This guy was an avid hunter, and had plenty of money to spend, so he had a New York gunsmith (I don't remember the name, but he was well known) put together a custom .35 Whelen for sheep, which he hunted in Wyoming with a local guide. This was in the late '50s.

    His wife, a little gal about 4'11" hated being left home, so she went along. One year they were camped with a guide, and she didn't feel well, so she stayed in camp while he and the guide went off. He had several guns, and left the .35 with her. She was an experienced shooter, but had never shot that gun.

    After a while, she spotted a mule deer quite some ways off. She decided to shoot it, so she lay down prone, rested the gun on a pack, and tickled the set trigger. The scope hit her above the eyebrow, and blood ran into her eye.

    A while later he and the guide returned to find her sitting there with a rag pressed to her forehead. "What happened?" he asked. She told him the story, then he and the guide went off to look where she had shot at the Mulie. They found the deer, a clean kill, and a long ways off. They paced ot off at 600 yards, and they hauled the deer, a big one, in for weighing. It was, at that time, the North American record.

    He couldn't decide whether he was glad she'd come along or not.
     
  15. MXSHOOTER

    MXSHOOTER TS Member

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    270, 300 mag Really doesn't make that much difference,what you really need is practice shooting 500 yards, enough so that you are comfortable making such shoots
     
  16. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    More Clay -

    There is really nothing wrong with what you have. Learn to shoot it better. You don't state what make it is or what kind of accuracy you are getting with it with the load you are currently using. I have a Remington 700 BDL in .270 Win and would not hesitate to take it out west on a mulie hunt. A 130 gr. Nosler Partition launched at 3000 FPS and with a 300 yard zero allows you to hold on the deer all the way out to 425 yards and maintain sufficient retained energy to kill cleanly. There is a lot of truth to the "Better hair than air" theory of long range shooting. Anytime you can hold on the animal as opposed to over it, opt for the on the body hold. It does sound to me that you do not have sufficient experience to be taking shots like that anyway. No offense but if you don't practice shooting at extended yardage, you are relying a lot on divine intervention when the time comes to shoot. As Halfmile stated, you might want to opt for a bit higher magnification in your optics. Nothing wrong with a Leupold 3X9 but 4.5X14 would be better for long range. A scope like the Shepherd or other Mil Dot types are great when shooting big game animals at long range. A good range finder and knowing where you gun is going to hit at certain range accomplishes the same thing. Regardless of what you choose, find a range that will allow you to shoot at the distances you might encounter on your hunt and practice, practice practice!

    Jeff
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    If I knew I had to gear up for a 500 yard game shot, and were recoil sensitive, I might well get a 26" heavy barrelled 7 Rem Mag and put a good brake on it. The Remington Sendero comes to mind. This brings physical condition into the equation. Joe Sixpack cannot carry a ten pound rig all day up hills. A light rig will be the devil to shoot at this range. You need to get into SHAPE.

    Cleanly harvesting a game animal at that range is beyond the skills of the average marksman. If you are not pulling our leg, you need to get the gun set up and start shooting it. You also need to get back to the gym.

    A die hard 270 shooter can get 3000fps out of a 140 gr Ballistic Tip. The Big Seven can get around 3350 with the same weight bullet. These are FULL THROTTLE, BARREL BURNING LOADS. They will kill the barrel if you practice much with them. The 270 load will drop almost FOUR FEET at 500 yards. The Big Seven will drop about 32". This is something to consider when shooting at extended range.

    At 500 yards, wind becomes the deal breaker. Speed is the ONLY way to lessen the effects of even a slight breeze at these distances. A lighter bullet loses speed over the long range you are talking about.

    Scopes? A good scope will cost an arm and a leg. If setting up for the long shot, I would suggest a fixed power scope of at least 16X. Leupold makes a competition 35X scope that might be worth a look.

    Loads? Shooting at this range calls for precision ammo. Factory ammo is likely not going to get the job done. Weighing and sorting brass, uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes, a Redding Competition Bullet seater, weighed powder charges, etc. Seating bullets to a depth that has been determined to give greatest accuracy sounds compulsive, but will make your task easier.

    My experience? Years on a Service Rifle team (before diabetes), several precision rifles, and many moons of long range varminting and harvesting venison.

    Best of luck, and get a jump on your hunt!
     
  18. len loma

    len loma TS Member

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    I some very good points are made. Get closer certainly makes sense and pratice shooting beyond 300yds will help. I think my best course is up grading my scope, buy ammo for practice and purchasing a better spotting scope. I appreciate all your thoughts and advice. Thank you
     
  19. walnutmaker

    walnutmaker TS Member

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    Guys, All the banter about magnums and all is foolishness. Buy a Shepherd scope 3.5-10 power, use the light magnum loads or federal premium nosler partition 130gr load in your 270 and you WILL have no problem out to 600 yards. thing is you need to practice at that distance------and without any wind. You will be amazed at what can be done by an accomplished marksman. 270 win is plenty of rifle to that distance --provided you hit them in the right spot. I have made over a dozen one shot kills on Elk to this distance with my 30-06 180gr nosler partition and have not lost an animal. It's all about hitting your target PROPERLY. If you shoot an elk in the butt with a 300 ultra mag it will run off unless you get lucky and hit the spine. The Shepherd scope is the secret--expensive and good too! Check it out at www.shepherdscopes.com . All the others are second rate and too complicated or expensive. Phil in Glade Park colorado We got two 30"mulies off the place this past season!
     
  20. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    SARGE,,,,all I can say is I sure would love to spend a long weekend at the range with you,,,,what you have learned ,,,should be shared with those willing to listen and learn,,,,,you ever in NY,,,or Tenn ,,,or S.D.,,,By the way ,,, I shoot 2, M70 wins,,, .308 and 243 wssm,,,,and a ruger M77 varmint in 22-250,,,,would love to learn more about long range ,drop the XXXX's,, Billy
     
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