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OPINIONS on the SIG 229

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Loyac, Nov 8, 2008.

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  1. Loyac

    Loyac Member

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    Kindly share your experiences with the SIG SAUER 229. Thanks. John
     
  2. cookoff

    cookoff TS Member

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    All positive. Carried one as a duty weapon for a number of years. Never a problem of any type. By far my favorite 40 cal full size. Have Glocks, H&K, S&w's and Kahr's in 40. Most accurate is the Sig. Most carried now is the Kahr (smallest), next the Glock 27 (mid size and higher capacity). The P229 is really a little to large and heavy to carry concealed. All have been great weapons. Would say the P229 is also the best made. Very high quality weapon and well designed. Best scores in qualifing were always with the P229 over the S&w and Glocks (all three of them). The action function of double action followed with single action firing was always better than the double action only trigger 8# (NY) required by the dept I was with on the Glocks. Hope this helps. Bruce
     
  3. thewolf

    thewolf TS Member

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    If you plan to use it for defense, I reccomend buying the DAO one. The trigger pool is more consistant. It shoots instictively and there is no decocker to use. I have small hands and have to adjust my grip for a decocker.
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Good, reliable, accurate, competent, ergonomically friendly pistol.<br>
    <br>
    The difference in the slide... The P-228 was, of course, 9mm. It used a state of the art (aircraft technology) slide that was actually a stamping, which was then milled. The front barrel and guide rod support was electron beam welded in. The rear inner slide assembly was then double rolled pinned in place (by double, one roll pin is nested inside another).<br>
    <br>
    At the time the P-229 came out, the .40 S&W was a new cartridge. There was no call for it in Europe (and probably still isn't). SIG/Sauer preferred to set up assembly of these guns in the US. The lower frame was still made in Germany by Sauer. The slide was milled from a solid block of steel, because it would have been cost prohibitive to set up the state of the art stamping machinery here. As a bonus, this gave more mass to the slide, and mass dampens recoil better and works better with more powerful cartridges than simply installing heavier springs.<br>
    <br>
    The US military is using the P-229 in 9mm, because it is far less expensive to mill these slides than to stamp them. This helps cut the contract price.<br>
    <br>
    As far as quality difference, there is none. Both are entirely acceptable methods of slide construction. One is simply lighter than the other, and for 9mm that may be a plus, and the other is less expensive to make and the increased mass is better for 40 S&W.<br>
    <br>
    As far as actually shooting these guns, I've shot them, but never owned them, though I had a P-226 9mm and still have a P-220 45 ACP that's had a helluva lot of use. I almost bought a P-228 9mm, but decided on a slightly smaller and lighter Walther P-5 Compact. At the time there was a 10 round mag limit, and the P-228 only held two more rounds than the P-5. That's not the case now (or at least until Lord Soetoro bans over 10 rounds mags again). If I were to do it now, I'd probably opt for the P-228 simply because of the larger mag capacity.
     
  5. Loyac

    Loyac Member

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    I thank you all. John
     
  6. oldsoul

    oldsoul TS Member

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    Take a look at this site; www.tjscustomgunworks.com. He did a level one on my 239 and bobed the hammer. Great guns
     
  7. plabels466

    plabels466 Member

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    Best pistols I own, & yes I own H&K - Kimbers - S&W - Springfields, & many more.....I shoot several thousand rounds a year & find the Sigs to be the most accurate......All of them are very dependable however.....Pete
     
  8. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    P220 45 my favorite all time shooter
     
  9. FN in MT

    FN in MT TS Member

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    Carried one in .357 sig during my last several years with the State. Same gun and cal used by the Air Marshalls and the Secret Service. I was alsoo one of the States SIG Armorers....What a boring job...like being the Maytag Repairman.

    Great system. Can't go wrong.

    FN in MT
     
  10. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    John, if you are looking for a carry, look at the Springfield XD's. I carry an XD 9mm sub-compact. Easy to conceal and lots of safety features, not to mention a lifetime warranty.



    <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/Jerbear1098/Guns/?action=view&current=9mmXDpistol.gif" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Jerbear
     
  11. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    To simply state a certain gun is more accurate than another doesn't really tell much. For me, if a 1911A1 can hold 1.5" groups at 50yards I would call that accurate. I doubt the Sig 229 is up to that level of performance.

    Mike
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I still own a couple of them and swap them between .40 and .357 Sig with a barrel change. I use the heavier recoil spring of the .357 Sig for both calibers. They are accurate and VERY durable. A little bit heavy for concealed carry in summer weather. Are they worth the price? Yes! Are there less expensive guns of decent quality? Yes, but the Sigs are worth the money, in my opinion.
     
  13. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Hi Steve,

    I'm inclined to go with your statement, but I know I can outshoot a Sig 229 with my 1911 on the 50yd range at an NRA slow fire target. It would not be a fair contest because my 1911 has been tuned to do just exactly that.

    But when people say one gun is more accurate than another without any other reference, it is only a subjective point of view and open to much interpretation. My view for the term 'accurate' is best discovered using a bench rest or Ransom Rest, then measuring results. I can honestly say there are not many pistols that can hold 1.5" at 50yds and I firmly believe the Sig cannot. I have a .22 Marvel conversion on my 1911 that can hold 5/8ths at 50yds benchrested. I cannot hold that level of accuracy by hand but I can also score a 197-3X with it at 50yds.

    Mike
     
  14. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Hi Steve,

    I shot bullseye pistol for a number of years and still enjoy the sport, though I don't have the time these days to do the practice to remain competitive. I also love trapshooting as I'm sure you do.

    Best Regards,

    Mike

    PS, I too think the SIG is a fine gun. The first time I shot one of these I was a little disconcerted it did not have safeties on it as I am used to.
     
  15. BrowningGal

    BrowningGal TS Member

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    The first handgun I ever shot was a friend's SIG229. Very nice pistol, but not what I ended up buying. Being a lefty, the Sig line just isn't comfortable to reach the slide release and magazine button. I went with the Kimber Custom Elite Carry - the predecesor to the CDP line. Very comfortable for lefties.
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    As one who trains Armed Professionals and Citizens, I do not generally recommend a sidearm with two different trigger pulls, decockers, safeties and such.

    Such doo-dads increase training time and can still have issues in lethal confrontations. In such a situation, one may have the brute strength of three grown men, but may only have the coordination of a three year-old child.

    The Sig is a fine arm, but for simplicity in duress, when things MUST be simple, the humble Glock is hard to beat if one wants a self loading handgun.

    Glock specific training is CARDINAL when carrying this high performance sidearm. Any tool used to survive life and death confrontations should be subject to regular maintenance.

    The 40 is a fine round. I prefer the 165 gr bullet for practice and service. It eliminates ANY issue the Glock may have with the 40 cal.
     
  17. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    brownK80,

    Good luck with the test. Instead of off-hand shooting comparisons I suggest benchrest comparisons between the two with 3 or 5 shot groups at 50 feet and measured results. Trigger control is still paramount. I'd be interested in the results, so I hope you post them, but this is exactly the comparison I was referring to in my first post and therefore my exaggeration. If you were in the Everett/Seattle area I would be glad to help out.

    Shooting Coach, why the .40 cal? I know from your previous posts it is your favorite, by why favored over the .45? I would have thought the .45 had proven itself in the best testing arena possible - WWII. Human physiology hasn't changed much since then.

    Best,
    Mike
     
  18. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Mike

    Military 45 ammo is a poor stopper. It is the old Full Metal Case design, as prescribed by Intl' treaties and such.

    Ammo companies have spent millions of dollars making the 40 roar. To boot, it is loaded to the same breech pressure as the 357 and 44 magnums.

    The 40, at almost 36,000 PSI, is the equal of the 45 Auto at 20,000 PSI. The GAP round is loaded to 22,000 PSI.

    The best thing about the 40, besides its performance and lower ammo cost, is the fact that it is built on the small bore platform. It is the same sized gun as the 9mm. The GAP pistol has a larger slide, and will not fit many holsters made for the small bore guns.

    Smaller, lighter, and with about the same power as the 45. What's not to love?

    It is signifigant to note, that in general, handguns do not have velocity or power to cause an immediate stop unless brain or spine is hit. Even a heart shot may fail to immediately stop a determined or intoxicated offender.

    If that knife wielding dope head has 10 seconds of whoopass left AFTER you center punch him, things go downhill quickly.
     
  19. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    THE DEMONSTRATIVE BULLET FALLACY.

    "In other words, bullets vividly demonstrate when and where they strike a human target because the subject “will jerk convulsively, go flying through windows [or] off balconies, or lose limbs, and there will immediately emerge a geyser of blood spewing forth from his wound…. This concept is reinforced by various firearm and shooting magazines that discuss and propagate the idea of handgun ‘knockdown power’ and ‘one-shot stopping power.’”

    Johnson experienced this myth first hand as a patrol officer the night he and his partner were threatened by a shotgun-toting, PCP-fueled hostage taker. “I was shooting with a .45-cal. Colt revolver, a gun I thought would blow him off his feet, and nothing happened. I put 4 rounds in him–broke his femur and penetrated his heart–but there was no movement I could see and no blood. It was extremely traumatic. I thought the only way I could stop him was to put a round in his head,” which Johnson, a master shooter, managed to do with the last bullet in his cylinder.

    Other officers with similar experiences have told him how startled and stressed they were when their expectations of instant stopping proved false in the middle of a gunfight.

    On the other hand, officers sometimes react to receiving fire “based on how they believe the dynamics of the force should work rather than how they actually do.” For example, the Secret Service agent who famously took a .22-cal. bullet for President Reagan “jerked quite noticeably as he observed the bullet strike him in the lower torso.” Johnson has seen the Demonstrative Bullet myth “even among armorers and range officers,” he told FSN.

    In reality, as an FBI report on the subject put it, “A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.”

    Indeed, “the ’stopping power’ of a 9mm bullet at muzzle velocity is equal to a one-pound weight (e.g., a baseball) being dropped from the height of 6 feet,” Johnson writes. “A .45 ACP bullet impact would equal that same object dropped from 11.4 feet. That is a far cry from what Hollywood would have us believe.

    nless the bullet destroys or damages the central nervous system (i.e., brain or upper spinal cord), incapacitation…can take a long time,” easily 10-15 seconds even after a suspect’s heart has been destroyed. “[T]he body will rarely involuntarily move or jerk, and usually there is no…[readily evident] surface tearing of tissue. Often there is no blood whatsoever…. [A]n officer can easily empty a full 17-round magazine before he or she observes any indication of incapacitation.” With more than one officer shooting, “that total may reasonably increase exponentially.” This contrasts sharply to the “‘one-shot drop’ mentality the movies have created.”

    Too often officers’ judgment is questioned when it appears they have fired “too many rounds” at a suspect, Johnson charges. He recalls the controversial case of Amadou Diallo, at whom 4 NYPD officers shot 41 rounds, resulting in “serious rioting, public protest,” and criminal charges against the officers. A medical examiner testified that Diallo was still standing upright when most of the fatal rounds hit him. “Do you think an understanding of the Demonstrative Bullet Fallacy might make a difference in the way the public views such incidents?” Johnson asks."
     
  20. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Thanks Shooting Coach...

    I recall a "Myth Busters" episode testing the theory a handgun bullet would lift a man off his feet as seen in the movies. They proved it was all done for drama by hanging a large (dead) pig on a hook and firing different bullets at it. Even the mighty .44 magnum failed to move the pig much with the bullet passing through the carcass. Next came a 30-06, but what did finally move the carcass was a 12ga with a slug, but it didn't really blow it off, just knocked it off.

    I knew about the high pressures of the .40. I have stood next to many of them going off with their ear piercing percussion.

    I have to admit, I love the .45 and always have. For home defense I use frangible loads, 125grs loaded to +P pressures. The manufacturer of the gun said it will handle it okay. I just hope I NEVER have to use it.

    "Smaller and lighter, what's not to love?" I take that to mean with the lighter bullet weight there is less recoil and yet the same penetrating power as the .45. Good point. I wonder how the 125gr +P would test in ballistic gel.

    Kind Regards,
    Mike
     
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