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Operating pressure

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Wahoo, Dec 27, 2009.

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  1. Wahoo

    Wahoo TS Member

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    The consensus on the 1100 seems to be that it takes 7,000-7,300 PSI to operate the action reliably. Has anyone ever heard of a minimum pressure needed for operating the Browning A-5 reliably? I have loaded 16 gauge shells down considerably to use in a pre-Flues Ithaca SXS but they miss a beat sometimes when I use the same loads in my Belgian Browning 16 gauge A-5.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    First, the operating pressure for gas port guns needs to be at the gas port. Just stating a pressure is not adequate. Using the incorrect burning rate powder may yield a peak pressure you desire, but still may not operate the action.

    Second, the A5 is a recoil operated gun, not a gas operated gun. Pressure is not the appropriate measuring stick.
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    1100's are more affected by gas volume than operating pressure. Differing powder characteristics make for diferrent manifestations of pressure. A high pressure spike may not operate a gas gun, while a lower pressure constant wave might.

    A-5's, 11-48's, Win M50's, and a couple modern guns are recoil operated as stated. The new ones work like a model 50 with a short recoil providing the thrust, and inertia finishing the job.

    I fired an A5 once and thought I broke the damn thing. It felt like the gun came apart in my hands.

    HM
     
  4. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the steel friction ring in the "lite-load" position between the receiver and the recoil spring on that A-5? Try a light coat of oil on the magazine tube if needed.
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I read or heard that the original purpose of the 1 oz. - 3 1/4 Dram Equivalent load was to ensure that a 12 gauge A5 functioned properly. It seems that a 3 Dram 1 oz. load did not have enough recoil to operate the action reliably. This may not be factual but it is what I have believed for many years.

    To me, A-5, while a great shotgun in its day, is difficult to shoot as everything seems to be in motion when the trigger is pulled. They also have significant recoil.


    I saw a Savage version a few years back in 12 gauge set up with Cutts Compensator. The gun was like new. Using the .680 tube, the owner was doing very well at a still board shoot.


    Ed Ward
     
  6. Wahoo

    Wahoo TS Member

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    Bob K

    I'm sorry to have to disagree with you but pressure is definitely a factor in the operation of any autoloading firearm, whether or not it is gas-operated or the recoil operated A-5 type. If you think pressure is not a factor in the operation of an A-5, I would ask that you try to open the action of an A-5 without applying any pressure anywhere on the barrel or the operating handle. Pressure from the fired cartridge is required to drive the bolt assembly and barrel back the distance required to allow the empty hull to be ejected while simultaneously stretching the recoil spring. When the presssure from the firing of the cartridge is reduced low enough, the recoil spring then retracts, pulling the bolt and barrel assembly forward into battery while simultaneously picking up and chambering a fresh round.

    I know from personal experience and testing that shells can be loaded to such low pressures as to not generate enough backwards thrust to drive the bolt and barrel assembly backwards far enough to ailow the fired cartridge to be ejected, whereupon the action simply returns the fired hull to the chamber. No fresh cartridge is picked up because the fired hull is blocking that operation.

    So, my original question was, and still is, doe anyone know how much pressure it required for the A-5 action to function correctly?
     
  7. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Dial back the spring preload on your Auto-5, try your desired load, and see if it works. It probably will. Make sure everything is clean and properly lubricated too. My Light Twelve eats anything if adjusted properly.

    I'm surprised that school_teacher said A-5s have significant recoil. To me, they kick like a .22. They are also one of the most successful hunting shotguns in history. Nearly a century after being invented, they were still being sold as a premium product at a premium price. If they weren't so costly to make (forged receiver) they'd still be available new today. It doesn't matter though, because the old ones will still be shooting fine long after we're all gone.

    -Gary
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think a Winchester Model 50 was recoil operated. The barrel doesn't move when fired. Same for the 59.
     
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