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? on Hammer Springs for Citori

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Easystreet, Jul 6, 2009.

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  1. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    When the hammer spring on a Citori is fully compressed (i.e. when the hammer is cocked), there is very little extra room for extra coils or extra thickness of the coils of the hammer spring that is around the hammer strut. That's a long way of saying that you need the overall compressed length of the new spring to be about the same as that of the old spring or else it won't fit.

    Secondly, it's a bit tricky compressing those hammer springs for removal and for reinstallation of the spring. Unless you are getting a lot of misfires now, I would consider leaving the original spring in place. Besides, the problem could be something other than the spring....... such as a bad firing pin, a dirty firing pin hole, or perhaps even the shells themself. Replacing firing pins and cleaning out the firing pin hole is easy, and I would try that first. Also try some different ammo.

    Easystreet
     
  2. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Bill,

    So you need to try it again after the cleaning you did today. Maybe the cleaning fixed the problem. If not, I suggest you clip off 2 or 3 coils of the small firing pin return spring for the bottom barrel. If that doesn't fix it, replace the firing pins with new ones.

    Finally, if all that doesn't fix the problem, put some new hammer springs in.

    CAUTION: Those springs are under a lot of pressure. Wear safety glasses while working with them. Also be careful not to let it slip, or else the spring and hammer strut may be launched across the room. I found that it's best to cover the work with an old sheet or pillow case while working on it. That way, if something slips, the sheet will contain it. If I lost a small spring in my workshop, I may NEVER find it. :)

    Easystreet
     
  3. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that the spring controls the length of travel of the firing pin. That is probably controlled by the shoulder (wider portion) of the firing pin.

    Clipping a few coils off the firing pin spring allows the pin to hit the primer with a little more force. The spring only needs to be strong enough to retract the firing pin after the primer has been hit in order that the pin won't drag when the gun is opened. Otherwise, the pin could stick in the primer and perhaps break the pin when the gun is opened.

    Easystreet
     
  4. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    Dec 25, 2007
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    My XT has well over 10,000 rounds...mostly through the bottom barrel. The only misfire occurred when I allowed gunk to accumulate in the firing pin cavity. I actually was able to remove the stock, and clean this between the morning and afternoon shoots while at the range during a registered event.

    When I got home, I decided to open the gun back up and do the job in a more thorough fashion. I also decided to replace the lower mainspring (hammer spring), while the gun was apart.

    Replacing the hammer spring was a BEAR!!!. Easystreet is right, do this in a place where if you slip and launch the hammer spring and guide, you still have a prayer of finding it. I got the job done, the gun shoots great, I didn't bugger anything, but it was one of the toughest jobs I have ever done (I found replacing the fuel tap on my 1978 Vespa scooter much easier).

    If anyone knows of a tool that will compress the hammer spring on an XT....I am all ears...and will pay good $$$ for it.

    Jef
     
  5. DH

    DH TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
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    Brownells has the tool to help with the mainspring. Brownells Shotgun Mainspring Tool--may be part no. 0800-000-114
    I have also heard that replacing the browning spring with a wolf spring will help. I have this problem all too frequently. Mostly caused by crud building up in the pin hole--take pin out, and if it is dimpled, replace it. I use a .17 cal. brass brush to clean out hole, pipe cleaners and air pressure. Do not put any oil in that area as it acts like a crud magnet.
    Dave Hakola
     
  6. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    Dave;

    Thanks for the info on the Brownell's Mainspring Tool...I just placed my order!

    Thank you again, sir.

    Jef
     
  7. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    A narrow needle-nosed pliers works just fine.

    Clipping the light firing pin return spring will not do anything, the hammer spring should be strong enough to compress that light spring.
     
  8. RV4driver

    RV4driver TS Member

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    Browning has a new firing pin for the Citori line. I just ordered some, as when I changed from Cheddite to W209 primers, I found that the Win is slightly recessed and was getting light strikes for the first time. I also ordered some upgraded hammer springs from J&P Gunworks. I'll let you know how it all works out.
    And yes, you could call the firing pin cavity a "crud cavity".

    Jeff
     
  9. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    <blockquote>"It also states that is should be fitted by Browning or a qualified gunsmith."</blockquote>
    ...usually a good recommendation but they're easy enough to change of you do it with the hammers cocked. Cock the gun, remove the stock, use the proper size punch to drive the firing pin retaining pin out in the proper direction, remove the pin and return spring, clean the pin and pin bore with mineral spirits and allow it to dry, oil the new pin, replace the spring and pin (with the cut-out for the retaining pin properly positioned) and replace the retaining pin.

    Suggest avoiding the heavy after-market Wolf main springs. They can beat up the breech end of the firing pin bore and really aren't necessary. If a pin is ragged on the end it's probably being burned from piercing primers; they're too soft to just chip. My experience... my opinion.

    Carol Lister
     
  10. skeetjunkie

    skeetjunkie TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
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    The Citori firing pin part number referenced by Jeff and Bill (1334157) is the same part number shown in the 2008 service parts list. I've had the same light strike problems with my XS Pro-Comp. I, too, had heard there was a longer firing pin available. I called Browning directly and asked for the longer version of the part number noted above. The lady I talked to said "that is internet babble. I don't know where it originated, but it's simply not true. We have one length of 12 gauge firing pin."

    Now, if someone can come up with the part number for a longer firing pin, I'm sure a customer for one. Or, if you can give the name of the right person to talk to, I'd be very appreciative. I've already had the gun apart and cleaned it thoroughly and replaced the bottom firing pin. I have the Wolff springs on hand and about ready to put them in. I'd really rather not but I'm also tired of the 3-4 times per hundred of getting failure to fire in the bottom barrel.
     
  11. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Skeetjunkie,

    Are you shooting reloads? If yes, do you have the same problem with factory loads?

    When a load fails to fire in the bottom barrel, do you try it in the top barrel? Does it ALWAYS fire the first time in the top barrel?

    Easystreet
     
  12. skeetjunkie

    skeetjunkie TS Member

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    Easystreet,
    I don't know how the gun would behave with factory loads as I've never shot any through this gun. Yes, I can take the lightly struck shell from the bottom barrel, put it in the top barrel and it fires everytime.
     
  13. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Well, since you are getting 3 or 4 misfires per 100 shells on the bottom barrel with your reloads, it wouldn't take long or cost much money to buy several boxes of factory shells and try them.

    If you shoot 100 factory shells and have zero or perhaps only 1 misfire in the bottom barrel, then that's a pretty strong indication that the reloads are the problem.

    For what it's worth, some reloads have the primers set too deeply in the head. Other reloads actually have a slightly concave shape to the head due to the way the primer is seated. Either of these conditions may not be apparent to the naked eye, but can affect primer ignition, particularly on the bottom barrel which has a less hard strike from the firing pin.

    Give it a try. What have you got to lose?

    Easystreet
     
  14. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    For what it's worth...

    We own 4 Citoris... 3 trap, 1 SC. Two of the four had occasional problems with misfires in the bottom barrel on reloads, which is what we shoot. We consulted with our gunsmith about it and he suggested the the problem was most likely in the bottom firing pin bores: two were a bit deeper than the others. He suggested we try some "custom" firing pins in the guns with the shallow bores. He used stock Browning firing pins, chucked them in a lathe and used a stone to remove a small amount of metal from the shoulders of 2 pins. I don't think he removed more than .015"-.020" but it was easily enough to eliminate the misfiring while retaining the factory springs. He made us several modified pins to install as needed during our annual maintenance or whenever.

    Carol Lister
     
  15. skeetjunkie

    skeetjunkie TS Member

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    I just spoke with a friend of mine who used to be our tool grinder at work. He suggested the same fix. He's done it on a couple of Citori's of his own and says it fixed the problem. I think I'll go that route first.
     
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