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Olympic Trap team

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by awbenz, Aug 23, 2008.

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  1. awbenz

    awbenz TS Member

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    I enjoyed the Olympic Basketball team kick butt and can't help but wish we had a Olympic Trap Team. Who would be on it? Leo of course and Ray had a great Grand. Mr Hawley would have to be on the Doubles Team. We have a lot of excellant shooters it would be hard to pick a top 5. Allen
     
  2. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    awbenz...

    We have an Olympic Shooting team. Of the 5 shotgun events they brought home medals in 4 of them. 2 Golds 1 Silver and 1 Bronze. There is a full page write up in Sports Illustrated this week. Buy a copy.

    Tom
     
  3. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Allen...

    I believe that our Sliver Medal winning Skeet Shooter, Kim Rhode, could beat Mr Hawley at Olympic Double trap any day of the week.

    Olympic Trap and Skeet require a level of skill that ATA shooters are not familiar with.
    TB
     
  4. shrode

    shrode TS Member

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    "I believe that our Sliver Medal winning Skeet Shooter, Kim Rhode, could beat Mr Hawley at Olympic Double trap any day of the week."


    Uhhhhhhhh .............. really?

    Rich
     
  5. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Yes.... Rich. She won 2 Gold Medals and One Bronze at Double Trap before they took women out of the sport. Mr Hawley is good but not that good.

    TB
     
  6. Bob Kalwas

    Bob Kalwas TS Member

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    Our Olympic trap team was Brett Erickson and Dominic Grazioli. Our double trap team was Walton Eller and Jeff Holguin. Both the double trap shooters made the finals (shootoff) round and Eller won the gold with a new Olympic Record.
     
  7. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Yes... Miranda is almost 15 and she is the only Female to run a perfect 25 in a final in the US. We suspect that she is the only one to do it in the world. This is 25 in a single barrel final.

    TB
     
  8. opa41

    opa41 TS Member

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    Vincent Hancock of Eatonton GA won the GOLD in int skeet
     
  9. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    I think awbenz is having a little fun with you guys! NOBDY who knows ANYTHING about the shotgun sports could posibly "NOT" know there is(and has been for years and years) a trap/skeet team as part of the U.S. olympic shooting team!!!!!!
     
  10. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Sportshot....

    If you are talking about Miranda's 25 in your first sentence I must tell you that her accomplishment was done in the open category and the second place shooter was a member of the Army MTU and in fact was second to Cory in the Olympic Team Trials. This year was interesting 4 of the 6 women and 3 of the 6 men in the open finals for the National Championship were JUNIORS! Miranda is the current national Champion. We have some great shooters coming up through the ranks.

    I really don't think the rank and file ATA members realize how difficult Olympic Trap is. They seem to think its a variation of ATA. Don't think so....

    Tom
     
  11. awbenz

    awbenz TS Member

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    Isn't it funny how easy some people get fired up. Allen
     
  12. Pride Engineer

    Pride Engineer Member

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    Check out the 1970 world team shoot records. The ATA's Ray Stafford recorded a perfect 150 straight to lead the US Army team to the title in this off Olympic year. This was with 11/4 oz, 3 dram loads compared to the juiced up 7/8 oz loads in use today. Bunker trap is tough but give Leo, Ray, Harlan, Ricki and Sean three monthe to work on it and they would kick all of the gold medal winners butt in my opinion. It is a difficult sport for sure but you have to remember that there are so few bunkers to shoot on in the US and the world that the best bunker shooters aren't likely shooting bunker. With American Trap, we have so many competitors that we likely have the best currently shooting.
     
  13. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    Frank Little competed in Olympic trap and made U.S, teams but was never a serious contender at a world level. Kaye Oyhe tried out for the doubles team and finished well, but did not make the team. He was, however, handicapped having shown up with ported barrels at a time when they were banned and had to shoot another set of barrels. Phil ross was a serious contender while in the military but did not make an Olympic team. Mike Herman, who did what only 26 ATA shooters have done, 300 straight singles, doubles and handicap in the same competition has not made an Olympic team. Granted, the top ATA shooters do not compete at the Olympic shotgun sports, but over the years I have seen a good number try, particularly as Juniors. And while they did well they did not reach the level their ATA credentials would suggest they might. In years past the idea that they might be classified as professional might have been a deterent but no longer. No doubt some could possibly be great, but until they put it on the line your argument is specious.
     
  14. usashootingdad

    usashootingdad TS Member

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    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    Let us not get all of our feathers ruffled because there are a lot of people, ATA shooters included, who do not know anything about Bunker (international) shooting sports. I really wish that everyone could have the chance to attend a USA Shooting "registered" Bunker match. It would be even better if everyone could try it too. Puff target has it right. Lots of ATA and five-stand shooters have tried it and have given it up because 1.) there is no money in it, and 2.)because years of hard work have to go into it before a shooter can reach the Elite level that is required to make the World Teams or the Olympic Games. The Men in my family have all shot ATA for 20-30 years now and my youngest son is still in Beijing, having come in 4th in Double Trap at his first Olympic Games. He has been shooting Bunker for the last 11 years and the past 2 on the USAMU Team out of Ft. Benning, where he trains with Glenn Eller, Josh Richmond, and Bill Keever. Never before has the AMU had 4 Elite Double Trap shooters at the same time. Vincent Hankcock has been an Elite Skeet shooter since he won the World Championships in Lonato Italy when he was only 16 years old!! These three, Vincent, Glenn and Jeff joined the Army just so they could better their chances of making the Olympic Team. Glenn has now been to three Olympics, but couldn't do better than 12th place the first two times, this time was Golden!

    My point is that ATA shooters should be proud of what these young men have done. The reason that you don't hear their names often is that they work hard, travel all over the world, and do not make headlines unless they attend an ATA shoot and win a trophy. Jeff has won California State Doubles Champion twice out of the last 4 years. Glenn came over from Sporting Clays (he was Jr World Champion) before attending the '96 Olympics with his Dad in Atlanta and deciding that he wanted to try Bunker. Thank goodness he did!

    Bunker Trap, Double Trap and Skeet are all VERY different from ATA and this to "pride engineer", Sean, Kay, Leo, Harlan, and anyone else you could name may be able to eventually become proficient at Bunker, but they would never do it, because it would take several years, not months for them to succeed and none of them would spend that much time and lose out on all the money that they make at ATA. Bunker is for truly dedicated shooters who want the glory not the big bucks, because unless you win a Gold Medal you won't be seeing any high dollar pay-days. Ask Bret Erickson, who is retired from the USAMU and now teaching trap in Texas, he is now making more money than he ever did on the USAMU Trap Team, and he won his share of International Medals.

    The next big shoot where all of these shooters will be competing is the Fall Selection Match to determine the World Team for 2009. It will be held September 13-15 for Double Trap, 13-16 for Skeet, and 17-20 for Trap at Ft. Carson, Colorado Springs, Co. You are all invited to attend either to shoot or to observe. We would be happy to see you there!

    Julie and Chris Holguin
     
  15. Mike Richmond

    Mike Richmond TS Member

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    Hey Julie and Chris congrats on a fine finish. I can't wait to see you all to hear the stories. You guys got to be proud. I know Josh has been talking to Jeff and Glen while in Beijing. Sounds like they all had a great time.

    I'm hoping Josh and Jeff can come up again this year to smack some more geese.

    Good luck at the Fall Selection. I don't think Sandy and I are coming out.

    Take care.

    Mike
     
  16. eagles11

    eagles11 TS Member

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    Mr. & Mrs. Holguin,

    Please tell Jeff how proud we are of him for his fine performance at the Olympics. He represented the United States very well!!

    Mike Herman had a great chance to make the Olympic team but broke his ankle just before the Olympic Trials in March of this year. He is also a great ambassador for our sport and nation.

    Jack Burch
     
  17. usashootingdad

    usashootingdad TS Member

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    Yes, we have alot of stories to tell Mike! But since you are not coming to the Match, I'll have to e-mail you directly, ok?

    Jack: Thanks for the kind words. We will pass them along to Jeff.

    Sportshot: The only thing we can say is this...the Chinese shooter was on Jeff's squad all through qualifying and yes he had to put up with the noise all day! Yes, it was irksome to those of us in the stands, and yes we all saw the questionable calls. Twice the Chinese fans even shut up and murmured, they saw the misses too. Yes, on one of those misses it looked like a piece of the first target hitting the second is what broke it belatedly...not his second shot. When an event is held in a communist country, that said country is going to do whatever they can to "help" their athlete win a medal. When Jeff hit one that he considered a hit, he protested, and was ignored. It was a "loss", so what do we think? What do you think? There was nothing to be done.

    Russell Mark has already put to print what he thinks of the officiating in this match. You can read it at losttarget.com if you want, it is quite interesting and we agree with what he says. All of the flankers and referee were chinese, coincidental or what? Fair or not? The final shows clearly that one of the flankers raised the red flag to signify a miss of the chinese, he looked at the referee, who did not acknowledge the miss with the buzzer so the flanker lowered his flag. You can still watch the final on nbcolympics.com

    We can only hope that changes will be made and that in 2012 there will be no judges, flankers, who will be partial to their own athletes. In other sports officials are not allowed to be on the panel if they have an athlete in the final. Why was this not done with shooting? Hope it will be different in London and beyond.

    Chris and Julie Holguin
     
  18. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    The question of money is interesting. Glenn Eller according to Sports Illustrated made in excess of $100k for his Gold Medal. This is before the Perazzi deal or Winchester. The Italian who was second probably made twice as much as in Italy the pay out for winning trap shooters dwarfs any anything in this country ATA winnings included. I hear about all this money in ATA but am reminded of a friend who won an event at the Grand a few years ago and got an empty gun case! Like any other sport the top shooters are probably taking most of the money but I suspect they are really making more from their sales of guns, videos, lessons etc. The shoot winnings are minor. There is no reason we don't do it in bunker. I guess its a carry over from the old days when you had to be a real 'amateur'. I occasionally get my entry back and I suspect that some do a little better but we don't have a Lewis or options. Maybe we should add them but the real statement is that no one is really making living off of trap shooting winnings in this country.

    TB
     
  19. B Weger

    B Weger TS Member

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    Ok I will chime in here. Mr. and Mrs. Hoguin please tell Jeff congratulations from the Weger family. Bret Erickson is my coach and friend he told me that when he got into international competition it took him 6 years to go from a AA ATA shooter to being competitive in international trap at the world level. There is no doubt that the top ATA shooters could become good bunker shooters after considerable training. What we need is more people to get interested in international double trap. I would love to see the ATA doubles shooters cross over and start shooting international double trap. It would make them better ATA doubles shooters if they did.
     
  20. ljutic231

    ljutic231 TS Member

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    Mike Herman would have been a good man to have in China, but he likes to play basketball with his son. He is a great dad and shooter.
     
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