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Ohio Delegate Letter to EC

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Brad Dysinger, Jan 4, 2012.

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  1. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Ohio shooters if you wondered why I supported Clyde Findley at last years State shoot to be our delegate read this letter he sent to the EC. I'm proud to call Clyde my friend. Brad Dysinger


    Dear Executive Committee:

    With all due respect I strenuously object to how the above referenced changes were handled and implemented. The very idea that the EC acting alone would implement three new categories and offer a one- time two yard reduction to approximately 29000 shooters, without prior communication and/or consultation with the Board of Directors (Delegates) or the Central Handicap Committee lacks common sense, is bad business, and just plain dumb.

    You say your new category changes are supported by intensive research. I find that hard to believe as the BOD heard nothing of these issues at the annual meeting this past August. I would love to hear or see the intensive research that pertains to the added expenses to the State/Provincial Associations from the additional categories.

    We all know that the handicapping system in use has many debatable issues that could be worked on or resolved; instead you just summarily decide to issue a one- time two yard reduction with no detailed explanation. Once again where is the intensive research? Will we have another one-time reduction next year also?

    Considering that two EC sponsored rule changes presented at the last Annual meeting were defeated by the BOD in nearly unanimous fashion, it should have been clear to you guys that you don’t really always have your fingers on the pulse of the organization. Obviously you have gone the other way and determined that you know so much about the State/Provincial Associations, the gun clubs, and the membership that you don’t need to consult with anyone but yourselves.

    Why do you think that the Past Presidents Association proposed at the last annual meeting, that all rule changes (except safety) should be distributed to the Delegates thirty days prior to the annual meeting. It was to promote enhanced discussion and understanding of proposed changes. They also recommended that formal votes should be taken on each change.

    I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the EC was striving to promote transparency between themselves and the rest of the organization. Unilateral edicts such as these changes clearly illustrate that there continues to be exactly zero transparency between the EC and the rest of the organization.

    The BOD clearly have fiduciary responsibility for the organization (as does the EC), yet changes such as these exclude the BOD from participating in the future direction of the organization. Eventually the BOD will simply be meeting once a year to simply fulfill a constitutional requirement of an annual meeting. On the Delegate side, we really aren’t representing our members as we are excluded from major decision making. By the way, I regard these edicts as major , as they affect every member in some fashion.

    Although these two changes were made without thorough thought or discussion and are fraught with issues, it is not my intention to address the specifics of the changes in this communication. However, by example if I take last years’ Ohio State Shoot Program and apply the same trophy distribution logic, then the new categories will require 108 more trophies, and of course accompanying shoot off expense. Should the State Association decide against adding these trophies they will then be subject to shooter complaints. What if Ohio does have these trophies and bordering states don’t?

    I understand that the EC is empowered to manage the association when the BOD is not in session, but I absolutely do not believe that transfer of management responsibility should be construed to mean that the EC has total control of the association in spite of the BOD.

    In closing, I fear that the EC has once again gone off on their own, which will result in more strife within the organization. Always remember, the heart and soul of the association is the gun clubs and the membership.

    On a personal note, I have personally known many members of the EC over the years; and have seen several of them change attitudes and behavior when they move from Delegate to Vice President. I guess I will never understand that change. I also wonder why anyone would want to be a Delegate? It is quite a change from being in a State organization and working hard hand in hand with others to build something or make it better.

    Jeff, you told me once that I would make a good Delegate – after reading this E-Mail I imagine that you would rather shoot me. I guess I can understand. By the way, this communication was meant to be derogatory to you all as a group and not individually.

    Always aim a little high so as not to shoot oneself in the foot,


    Clyde W. Findley
    ATA Delegate Ohio
     
  2. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,398
    Their like obama, who needs a congerss or a BOD.
     
  3. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

    Joined:
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    918
    Dear Executive Committee: With all due respect I strenuously object to how the above referenced changes were handled and implemented. The very idea that the EC acting alone would implement three new categories and offer a one- time two yard reduction to approximately 29000 shooters, without prior communication and/or consultation with the Board of Directors (Delegates) or the Central Handicap Committee lacks common sense, is bad business, and just plain dumb.

    You say your new category changes are supported by intensive research. I find that hard to believe as the BOD heard nothing of these issues at the annual meeting this past August.

    I would love to hear or see the intensive research that pertains to the added expenses to the State/Provincial Associations from the additional categories.

    We all know that the handicapping system in use has many debatable issues that could be worked on or resolved; instead you just summarily decide to issue a one- time two yard reduction with no detailed explanation. Once again where is the intensive research?

    Will we have another one-time reduction next year also?

    Considering that two EC sponsored rule changes presented at the last Annual meeting were defeated by the BOD in nearly unanimous fashion, it should have been clear to you guys that you don’t really always have your fingers on the pulse of the organization. Obviously you have gone the other way and determined that you know so much about the State/Provincial Associations, the gun clubs, and the membership that you don’t need to consult with anyone but yourselves.

    Why do you think that the Past Presidents Association proposed at the last annual meeting, that all rule changes (except safety) should be distributed to the Delegates thirty days prior to the annual meeting. It was to promote enhanced discussion and understanding of proposed changes. They also recommended that formal votes should be taken on each change.

    I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the EC was striving to promote transparency between themselves and the rest of the organization. Unilateral edicts such as these changes clearly illustrate that there continues to be exactly zero transparency between the EC and the rest of the organization.

    The BOD clearly have fiduciary responsibility for the organization (as does the EC), yet changes such as these exclude the BOD from participating in the future direction of the organization.

    Eventually the BOD will simply be meeting once a year to simply fulfill a constitutional requirement of an annual meeting.

    On the Delegate side, we really aren’t representing our members as we are excluded from major decision making. By the way, I regard these edicts as major , as they affect every member in some fashion. Although these two changes were made without thorough thought or discussion and are fraught with issues, it is not my intention to address the specifics of the changes in this communication.

    However, by example if I take last years’ Ohio State Shoot Program and apply the same trophy distribution logic, then the new categories will require 108 more trophies, and of course accompanying shoot off expense.

    Should the State Association decide against adding these trophies they will then be subject to shooter complaints. What if Ohio does have these trophies and bordering states don’t?

    I understand that the EC is empowered to manage the association when the BOD is not in session, but I absolutely do not believe that transfer of management responsibility should be construed to mean that the EC has total control of the association in spite of the BOD. In closing, I fear that the EC has once again gone off on their own, which will result in more strife within the organization.

    Always remember, the heart and soul of the association is the gun clubs and the membership.

    On a personal note, I have personally known many members of the EC over the years; and have seen several of them change attitudes and behavior when they move from Delegate to Vice President. I guess I will never understand that change.

    I also wonder why anyone would want to be a Delegate? It is quite a change from being in a State organization and working hard hand in hand with others to build something or make it better.

    Jeff, you told me once that I would make a good Delegate – after reading this E-Mail I imagine that you would rather shoot me. I guess I can understand. By the way, this communication was meant to be derogatory to you all as a group and not individually.

    Always aim a little high so as not to shoot oneself in the foot, Clyde W. Findley ATA Delegate Ohio
     
  4. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Cy Kick Thanks for cleaning up my post, I'm a trap shooter not a computor whiz obviously. Brad
     
  5. Ken Brandt

    Ken Brandt Active Member

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    Location:
    The Dark Side
    As far as the category change's, this is something that should have been voted on by the board of director's. If they want to screw around with the category's why not just change the junior's ending age limit to 24 and the veteran starting age limit to 55. You accomplish the same thing without the added trophy cost's, Don't you?????

    I guess I didn't realize the categories as they we're, caused a problem. The problem comes from the category rule itself.

    Ken
     
  6. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    1,787
    I heard that these rule changes had been voted down at the last Delegates meeting...I had nothing but this as a rumor...Guess it really was fact...

    Soooo, Delegates / members say, doesn't mean much ???

    Considering that two EC sponsored rule changes presented at the last Annual meeting were defeated by the BOD in nearly unanimous fashion, it should have been clear to you guys that you don’t really always have your fingers on the pulse of the organization. Obviously you have gone the other way and determined that you know so much about the State/Provincial Associations, the gun clubs, and the membership that you don’t need to consult with anyone but yourselves.

    Why do we bother with Delegates ? Just figure heads is my guess after reading this...Tooo bad, good organization going sour. Like some manufacturing operations I know of...KODAK for one.
     
  7. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Good Job Mr. Findley. Well said and it needed saying and more.

    I hope all states refuse the category changes.

    Don
     
  8. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    860
    I whole heartedly agree with Mr Findley's letter. The only thing I would suggest to Mr. Findley that he consider looking into garnering delegate support for a proposal at the next annual meeting that would prohibit the EC from making future rule changes.


    The delegates clearly have the power and authority to limit the Executive Committee's right to add, change, or delete trapshooting rules per Section 4 titled “Powers” of the bylaws.


    I have been a life member since 1969 and I have yet to see a need for rule change that couldn't wait until the annual meeting. The Executive Committee has clearly wander off the reservation and needs to be slapped down.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  9. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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    This used to be one great organization,it broke off a few years ago (PITA)..

    Do we need 3.??
     
  10. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    It is a sad state of affairs that our organization has come down to this. I believe that Mr. Findley's letter is right on, on the miss use of power by the EC. I am sure that there will be some more interesting information in the near future on how the classification issue with the former Jr.Shooter at the Ohio State Shoot was handled.

    One of the most importent things we need now is for all of the delegates to come together and have a united front to rein in an out of control EC.

    As simple as it may be I can't wait to get my 2 yard reduction.

    Dave Berlet
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Well said Mr Findley, Well backed up Mr. Dysinger.

    Well delegates get together and get control of the BOD they need it.

    You have my support.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life Member
     
  12. o-hale

    o-hale Well-Known Member

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    Mr Findley, WAY TO GO, I know of a CHC member that was really pissed off also and told the EC the same thing. I am in the new category of sub Vet or some BS like that and WILL NOT ever declare for it. The State assoociations should all get together and refuse to add the additonal trophies. The small clubs which are the backbone of the ATA will suffer the most with the handicap ruling and the added classes crap! Again, way to go with your comments to the EC.

    Wayne Hale
     
  13. plux001

    plux001 Member

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    On occasion, I am proud to live in Ohio...

    Paul
     
  14. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    o-hale -

    Worth nothing that the small clubs won't be affected by the new categories, as they are optional and were intended only for shoots that offered AA points (although all clubs are free to use them if they desire).

    Scott
     
  15. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    Brad, was glad to clean it up. It was too important not to.

    Even though I live in NC, I still consider my self an Ohioian.

    I had thrown (pulled and loaded) a lot of targets for Clyde Findley and his father, Walt, at Milford Gun Club.

    You guys keep up the good fight.

    Scott Ferguson
     
  16. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Thanks Scott I think we will, we have a state meeting on the 7th and I'm looking forword to it. Ann's brother lives in NC now too. Brad
     
  17. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    What happens if Ohio, and other states, do not use the new cats?
     
  18. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    They save money!
     
  19. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If all of the States band together there is nothing the EC can do to enforce the changes ... This is where the strength in numbers comes in and the protest could hardly be ignored by the EC ... Good time to see what the BOD are made of, time will tell ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  20. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Brad,

    Could you explain what the category changes are and all that they entail. You can even explain them from your and Clyde's point of view. I figure it will be a whole lot easier than trying to glean them out of a rule book or EC meeting minutes or decipher from this thread. If you don't want to fool with it, I'll understand. Thanks for any response.
     
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