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Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by no5shooter, Jun 28, 2009.

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  1. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    I'll second the Las Vegas idea, and DB Bill's time frame sounds pretty good too.
     
  2. vegas blaster

    vegas blaster TS Member

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    all in for Vegas. me too!
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Las Vegas was a site under consideration when the Grand was forced to move. Las Vegas lost its support at the BofD meeting when final site was to be selected. The representatives from Las Vegas told us that they would not be able to build the facility and withdrew the site from consideration.

    That left a site in Indiana and Sparta. The Indiana representatives were reasonably certain that they could get the additional land and the Indiana site would have required a debt burden on the ATA between six and ten million dollars. The offer presented by Sparta only required the ATA to provide the trap machines that we already owned.

    Illinois is an anti-gun state. The political ethics in Illinois can be questioned. But, it was the only state that offered to build the best trapshooting facility in the world entirely with state funds. It is unfortunate that Illinois would only build the facility in Illinois.

    Pat Ireland

    Pat Ireland

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. birddogs46

    birddogs46 Active Member

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    what we call southern illinois, is not anti gun, and that is where sparta is southern ill., chicago and the counties located around chicago are the anti gun, anti hunting wackos, as most of the large metropolitan areas in the eastern u.s. are anti gun, and we ill. trapshooters are rather proud of sparta...dk
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    As I have stated many times before:

    The shooter's will eventually decide where the Grand is held, not the ATA BofD.

    Sparta is a great facilty to shoot, but that's it! There will be no social infrastructure within the next 20 years, if at all. It's owned by a government entity, therefore will most likely falter.

    The Cardinal Center will continue to grow and thrive as the social infrastructure is already in place, it's privately owned and will thrive if not taxed to death by our ever growing government.

    The CC does not need the ATA BOD's blessing, the shooter's and the OSTA have already established that.

    Curt
     
  6. samme_no2

    samme_no2 Member

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    Thanks Pat for a clear truthful and factual answer. Most people still argue about that issue without knowing these facts. Harry
     
  7. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    FlaLagarto, Great question!



    Hauxfan!
     
  8. gusto777

    gusto777 Member

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    VIVA LAS VEGAS ! ! !
     
  9. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Jack wouldn't spend money with no return. He is making money on the shoots there.
     
  10. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    First of all, I live in downstate Illinois, and the entire state IS anti-gun. Just because people downstate like hunting doesn't change the fact that Chicago politics controls Springfield. If Illinois wasn't anti-gun we would not have to have FOID cards, etc.

    Second, I am curious. If NAMBLA offered to build a $30 million school and promised the best education possible to little boys, would ATA BoD members send their sons? Sometimes the promise isn't worth the price. In a few years Illinois will do something that will make the ATA want to leave. Unfortunately, the State is going to file so many lawsuits against the ATA that the ATA will be bankrupted by defense costs. I've lived in Illinois most of my life, and I know how Illinois politics work. The intent (by Chicago Democrats who went along with this) from day one was to eliminate the largest shooting sport in the US. To do that they had to use good bait. Mark my words.

    Shoot well and often,

    Mark.
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    FlaLagarto those are great questions. Unfortunately Dr. Longshot has not answered any of them and I don't believe he ever will. As it doesn't fit his agenda.

    grnberetcj

    "The shooter's will eventually decide where the Grand is held, not the ATA BofD"

    Curt is another who seems to feel there is some sort of difference between "shooters" and the "ATA BOD" what that difference is is not clear and he refuses to elaborate.

    It is all just more pot stirring as far as I am concerned and until they are willing to answer the questions they have created they just classify as trouble maker.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    Thank God for Mr. Fishburn and the Cardinal Center. John
     
  13. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Bob...

    The "difference" between the shooter's and the BOD is purely a logistical matter by those that volunteer and those that do not.

    My point is merely stating that the shooter's will choose which venue to participate by sheer numbers and demographics, not by an edict.

    I have no bone to pick about Sparta. I think it's a fantastic place to shoot and I hope it survives.

    Do I think a better venue could have been picked? Yes, but due to procrastination and ineptitude by our previous directors it was not to be.

    Elaborated enough?

    Curt
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    grnberetcj

    " Yes, but due to procrastination and ineptitude by our previous directors it was not to be."

    No as we can all see you do it everytime you make a snide remark on some ones ability or efforts and you never complete the statement you leave it for those that are already against ATA policies to draw their own conclusions. To make their own negative comments to feed off the negativity of your comments.

    "I have no bone to pick about Sparta. I think it's a fantastic place to shoot and I hope it survives."

    You have just said that there would have been a better place to shoot except that the directors didn't want it to happen. Now would you care to elaborate on the better venue theory????

    BTW it is possible to make a point by saying nothing if those that are feeding off the negativity care to read between the line.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Las Vegas shooting complex is planning on its grand opening in a couple of months. This is a hugh place .Right now they have 25 trap fields with skeet overlays and room for plenty more. 1000 yard rifle range, and sporting clays course. Club houses are being finished at this time. This will be a great place to shoot .
     
  16. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Longshot, with all due respect. You still haven't answered this question.

    Quote........AND.. if he does not need the ATA.. then why does he hold ATA events and throw ATA targets ??.......Unquote....

    Hauxfan!
     
  17. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    Gary Bryant Dr.longshot you posted:

    "With states like Indiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Ohio having the majority of trapshooters in the country this is the TRAPSHOOTING Mecca"

    You then went on to state:"I think one thing would be hold open meetings in several locations across the USA at different times and just LISTEN and TAKE NOTES and not offer any opinions until after all all meetings have been held and then let the members vote on any changes. Because the financial status of the BOD members can afford the changes and do not consider the average member."

    Well dang, with the "Mecca" being what you state it is why ask anyone anything? Your implication smells of dead fish.

    FlaLargo not to give the folks at the Silver Dollar credit for the service they provide also has the aroma of dead fish. Bill and Ken are doing their best to provide a hard sell bunch the best service possible.

    There has been factual information provided as to why decisions were made by the ATA BOD, why folks continue to disreguard this information is not understood by me.

    The biggest problem with Sparta, as I see it, is, it is not 10 minutes from most of the complaining old shooters who post here. Other than that Sparta is a world class facility that serves the ATA well. And to top that, all we, the ATA has to do is show up and shoot. The IDNR takes care of the place for us! What a deal. As I understand there is 6 or 7 years left on the agreement with the IDNR. You that want the location changed can band togather and find a location that can handle our needs. I'm sure your proposals would be considered by the folks you are so eager to bash. Untill then, the GRAND is at SPARTA. Get over it and stop your complaining! Jake Jacobs
     
  18. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Not to put words into Gary's mouth but I believe he meant that Mr. Fishburn doesn't need the ATA for "naming" rights for a "satellite" Grand type of shoot, he and his facility can draw the crowds regardless.

    Another question that has just popped into my noggin' is "Does Sparta pay a $15,000 (or more) fee to the ATA for holding the Grand there?

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JB Logan Co. Ohio

    "Not to put words into Gary's mouth but I believe he meant that Mr. Fishburn doesn't need the ATA for "naming" rights for a "satellite" Grand type of shoot,"

    Jerry does this mean that you are the "official" spokesperson for the Cardinal Center.. and/or for Mr. Fishburn??

    "Another question that has just popped into my noggin' is "Does Sparta pay a $15,000 (or more) fee to the ATA for holding the Grand there?"

    If they do or if they don't how does this affect the question at hand. Is longshot the official spokesperson for Mr. Fishburn? If not are you if not why should I (and I say I because my statements are officially my own) care one way or the other. What longshot thinks or says.

    You don't want to put word in his mouth but you seemingly think nothing of supporting his lunacy not to mention his arrogance.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Member

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    Gary, Whom from the ATA was at the Cardinal Center on the 26th and made them an offer to hold a satellite Grand? I was there but must have missed the meeting! Are you suggesting that clubs pay the ATA $15K just for the privilege of holding a Satellite Grand and get nothing in return for their money?

    Shoot well,

    Jim Thompson

    ATA Executive Director
     
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