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Officer's Insurance

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by kolar-bkpt, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. kolar-bkpt

    kolar-bkpt TS Member

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    Happy New Years Everyone.
    I need some help. I have been asked to run to be an officer of my gun club. We do not have any insurance protecting the officers from any lawsuits. I would like to know who I might be able to contact & talk to about getting insurance. Any input would be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance-
    Gary
     
  2. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    This is specialty insurance and the cost is going to reflect the risk. If you get T&F, there are a couple of companies who advertise. If you get Blacks Wing and Clay, they have a number of insurers who advertise including Coastal Plains Outdoors (800-664-0222), NRA Endorsed Insurance (877-487-5407), Sportsmans Insurance Agency (800-925-7767), and Eilert Insurance Group (1-800-427-2434).
     
  3. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Try K & K Insurance, Fort Wayne Indiana
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Get your O & D insurance, plus get a bylaw change indemnifying the Directors and E board. You may never need it but it is a defineite ass saver. Check with your attorney.

    HM
     
  5. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    NFPs have some immunity for their O&Ds. General Liability insurances typically provides for actions coming from outside the club - as club members are typically insureds as well. These can extend from injuries on premises by guests to contractual disputes with vendors.

    D&O insurance typically insures from lawsuits brought from within the Club - these could involve negligence regarding matters of running the club.

    Examine your exposures and choose accordingly,

    Jay Spitz
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Some may be reluctant to serve as an officer or on the board without it...
     
  7. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I don't serve as an officer or director anymore because of our club’s lack of directors and officers liability coverage.

    As a member of an incorporated club, my understanding is that I have no personal liability. Should the club be sued and be found guilty of a high dollar judgment, the club’s assets could be seized to pay the judgment but I could not be compelled to help pay for the judgment.

    This changes when you are an officer or director of an incorporated club.

    As an officer or member of the board of directors, I could be sued personally and would have to defend myself in court. There, the other party would have the burden of proving that I acted in a negligent manner and I would have to prove that I was not negligent. I would have to pay for my own defense and could be required to pay a judgment if I was found guilty, even on a percentage basis.

    As we allow unsupervised shooting of high powered rifles on an outdoor range in a populated area and have other risks, I am not comfortable serving as an officer or director.

    While previously serving as an officer, I suggested that the club investigate D&O liability insurance but the proposal went nowhere.

    The club has been in existence for over 50 years without a lawsuit but I am just not comfortable putting my family at risk of significant financial harm.

    Before retiring, I served as an officer and/or director of several non profit professional organizations. Those organizations had D&O liability coverage even though we only met monthly for dinner and put on an occasional conference.
     
  8. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    contact the NRA, our club moved their insurance to them this year and save quite a bit of money.


    Jerbear
     
  9. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Screw the Officer's! They got anything for the guys who REALLY run the show.....like a Sargent?
     
  10. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    I’ll borrow (and modify) an American Express line for this one.

    D&O don’t be on a board without it!

    Let me simplify it and give an example of when board members might need this coverage.

    D&O covers the board members against suits or claims from within the membership or organization for good faith mismanagement. This is not covered by your normal General Liability Policy. I won’t bore you with issues involving, corporations, charitable nonprofits or homeowner associations. For this subject I’ll stick to shooting clubs.

    Let’s say that the ACME gun club has been around for years. It has a strong membership and some of the members have been around for years. The membership has been very active with workdays to make the facility look first rate. The club has no debt and money in the bank. It’s such a nice place and shooting is so much fun that many of the members have invested huge money in this hobby in guns and equipment, as well as investing hundreds of hours of volunteer work around the club. Things are great. Then the board gets together and decide that they need to have some big shoots. Unfortunately their club only has 3 traps and they are old handsets. The board decides to use their savings and take out a sizable loan to purchase the land next to them, add two traps and purchase 5 new PATs. The decision is made because they believe that the larger facility will not only allow them to have some larger shoots, but surely the membership will grow. Unfortunately when the work is done and the money is spent and now they have a large monthly payment, gas goes to $4.00 per gal, lead goes to $50 /25# and not only do many long time members drop there memberships and stop shooting because of cost but nobody comes from out of town for their shoots. After a year the club can no longer meet their payment obligations and the bank forecloses, the land is sold at auction and will now be an industrial park, the machines are auctioned off and there is no place for 200 miles to shoot trap. Unfortunately for the members of the board, one of the regular members is a sharp attorney. He’s one of the guys that invested over $20K in guns and equipment and has put in 100hrs in the past two years volunteering for cleanup days, helping with target loads that come in, taking his turn setting targets, you know the normal stuff. But he decided that the board made a massively poor business decision that ultimately resulted in the loss of the club. His personal loss is that he has invested his money and time all for nothing. Now to shoot he must drive 200 miles. So he gathers a few hundred other members that have lost on their years of investment in this club and together they file a class action suit against the members of the board that were involved in causing them this loss. With D&O the company hires a law firm to defend the BOD and the loss is (if any) paid. But even without loss, even if the BOD prevails they will still need the defense. Without the D&O the BOD members are now digging in their pockets to come up with the 10K (starting) retainer they’ll need just to answer the original complaint. This is a catastrophic example, but board members can be held liable for the loss to the club and membership for every thing they do. Do you want to be on a board without coverage?

    I would check with the company that you currently have your General Liability with. If you can get the coverage endorsed onto your current policy it will be much cheaper then buying it monoline.

    Good luck!
     
  11. erm

    erm Member

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    Check with your club's current insurance company. D&O coverage is usually offered as a rider to the basic policy.
     
  12. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Barry -- state laws may be all fine and good, but what would happen if you are sued on a federal level (like the EPA)?

    Any organization with officers, directors, etc should get the insurance. Usually only runs a couple hundred bucks a year. I think for the ITA it is around $200. Money well spent.

    K&K do an excellent job, but a local insurance guy should be able to help you out -- usually K&K or the bigger companies will underwrite it.

    John
     
  13. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    CD isnt right on his example-

    The need for insurance?- it does depend.

    There are many factors but if you are a non profit, you would probably have to be involved in fraud or self dealing to be liable yourself and in that case the insurance company would try not to honor their coverage anyway.

    If you are a for profit entity then a buisness decision that considers all facts is all that is needed.

    Check your state laws yourself.

    Bottom line-- this type of insurance makes insurance agents and companies rich.

    Regards from the great state of Iowa

    Gene
     
  14. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Gene stay in the gun business because you don't know squat about Ins.. At $200 per policy and 10% commission they sure are making a killing on this product. Take Gene's advice and when your butt is in a sling and they want to take your personal assets call good ole Gene up and ask him for some cash. You don't have to lose or be liabel just the defense cost will kill you.

    Any Insurance is like a parachute: It is better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

    Roll the dice and take your chances.

    Gene are you the green lizard for GEICO?? Sounds like the advice they give.

    Don
     
  15. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Don

    Isnt that generous?- insurance company will not only pay for damages but hire an attorney to defend you for $200

    Insurance agents must have a soft spot in their hearts for gun club directors and officers

    A rare bargain in todays cut throat world

    Regards from the great state of Iowa

    Gene
     
  16. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    One of the primary reasons for D&O insurance is so that the insurance will pay your legal fees in case you are sued personally.

    Assume that a trespasser on your club grounds steps in a hole and breaks a leg and then he sues you personally as a director for operating a hazard. If a suit is filed, you must defend yourself or else loose by default.

    Ask yourself this question. If I am sued personally as a director or officer of a club, who will pay my legal fees to defend myself?

    Ask yourself this question. If I am sued personally as a director or officer of a club, and the suit is successful, who will pay your damages?

    I would beware of inexpensive D&O coverage. Make sure you understand how the coverage works.

    My opinions only.

    Good Luck
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    cdconley, your scenario is quite impressive. This very possibility is why any major expenditures of our club are voted on by the membershi at large.

    Newsletters before the membership meeting (3 a year) alert the members to the upcoming sutuation that must be dealt with.

    This included, in the past, major expenses such as purchase of additional land, reconstruction of the entrance road, paving the parking lot, and remodeling of the clubhouse.

    It is my belief that this M. O. is necessary, and even then the bitchers will be vociferous and hypercritical after the fact. But they can't bitch since it was a membership decision.

    there's a snake in every rockpile, isn't there?

    HM
     
  18. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    People who think like Hip Shot ( Screw the officers ) are one of the reasons well qualified people care not to subject themselves to the abusive thinking of some of the membership. Lack of D&O insurance is a real consideration for not taking the rains of leadership in any club. I choose to no longer put myself in jepordy and instead remain a active participant only as a member. Post-2
     
  19. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Doesn't your home owners insurance cover you on some liability?
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Surprisingly enough, it might. I know of a case where it covered a kid's injuries at a neighbor's place. An ambulance chaser got it and sued the dad for not taking care of the kid.

    You have to check with your agent.

    And.........get it in writing.

    HM
     
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