1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Off Trap Topic --- History lessons------

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by cottondoctor, Nov 26, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cottondoctor

    cottondoctor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Mississippi
    I am not sure if kids today are taught much history in high school or even college.....seems that they are taught how to make smart phone apps, or gadget this-gadget that......It would seen that voting age America has been taught "self above country" --- Or, "what's in it for me". A nation ignorant of history is doomed to repeat it ...I think that has been said before.


    In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."


    John Adams, Founding Father and the nation’s second President warned: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."


    Today, conservatives in America are wondering if the 2012 election was a vote to commit national suicide.
     
  2. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,461
    It really depends on what conservatives do in the future.


    Ever see the cocaine addicted lab mice experiments? Given a choice the mice go for the high every time, even over the food offering. This self-destructive behavior seems to support your premise. I believe there are more aspects to consider though.


    It is true humans harbor selfish instincts; both the liberal, and conservative types. The only difference is WHAT they covet. Unselfishness is learned and contrary behavior for those not so conditioned by family and society.


    How many dictatorships have survived for centuries even though that form of government has been around for an eternity? It seems that they self-destruct eventually also.


    The lemming hasn't jumped the precipice yet I don't believe. It's kind of tough to build a dictatorship in just eight years with all the checks and balances we have in place.


    Remember that patience is a learned behavior too. The pendulum will swing back in the conservative direction one day if those so inclined stay engaged. The ebb and flow of political influences without rebellion or complete domination of one over the other is healthy and certainly promotes longevity.



    Guy B.
     
  3. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,787
    The progressive welfare state began in the early 20th century. It may have reached it's pinnacle in the Obammy era. How much will the haves continue to give, to support the have-nots before the camel's back breaks?
     
  4. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    340
    This type ecopolitcal position is really accredited to Alexis de Toqueville who preceeded this Scot by more than 3 decades (1805 to 1859).

    js in PA
     
  5. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,775
    Guy B,

    The penduluum will NEVER swing back. Why would it? Will the takers say, "Stop, we have enough"? Will the candidates say, "We will stop giving free things to you even though you may not vote for us?"

    You see, this is NOT a penduluum. This is a falling rock. What force of nature can or will reverse that? Only hitting bottom!
     
  6. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,461
    Maybe the sky really IS falling....


    Evidently you aren't too interested in history.
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Whats interesting to note here is the fact that this hasn't acually been a democracy since Obama took office.

    After all in the four years he has been in office he has used his executive privilege over 900 times. That means that congress isn't making too many decisions. The history lesson doesn't seem to apply in this case

    "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

    The money isn't being voted on by the voters the Messiah in his infinite wisdom is giving it away. I know that the voters put him in office but the two party system is more responsible for the outcome that the actual voters. JMO

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. Mapper

    Mapper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    684
    Location:
    SW Michigan
    I tend to agree with Babin. It will swing back because where we are now going is not sustainable. However, I would not put a time frame on it. Likely I will not live to see it unless something serious happens. Eventually, when we run out of money, even those who think meat is manufactured in the supermarket and Obama has limitless money to give away, will get the picture. Unfortunately, many of them may perish in the process.
     
  9. Model Number 12

    Model Number 12 TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Messages:
    622
    The people who work for a living are now outnumbered by the people who vote for a living. The financial writing of our country is on the wall for anyone who will take the time to read it.

    Our country was built by the industry, resourcefulness and determination of its citizens. The reward for this effort was that they were allowed to keep most of what they produced. This system produced the highest standard of living in history.

    Now, too many in America are willing to denigrate those who are financially sucessful and demand a share of what they have produced while they themselves have contributed nothing to the effort.

    At one time, the business of America was business. Now the business of America is government.
     
  10. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    837
    Model Number 12 and the rest of the doomsday preppers : Everyone knows the problems and the reasons, so what do you suggest? All the pessimism is only making it worse and at the same time giving in to the reasons. I have no doubt we are in trouble but hey, lets stick all your chins up and figure a way to help instead of all the doom a gloom.

    I am sure in the past, maybe in the 1930's when Socialism/communists were actually on the ballet and damn near won, you could here the same cries.

    We are still here, weakened but still strong?

    CM
     
  11. Westie

    Westie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    266
    The wealthiest 10% of Americans pay over 70% of the federal income taxes. Most Americans vote without buying a ticket to the dance. What do you think is going to happen to the Treasury?
     
  12. dhip

    dhip Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,473
    Location:
    westgrove,Pa.
    It's not democracy alone,Capatalism has run it's course.Everyone demanding higher wages ,benefits,continually over the years has put us over the top.Yes I was union,yes they were needed in the beginning because of abuse,but to continually ask for higher wages and benefits have cost us.Also,management with the out landish bonuses for CEOs .executives,etc.,are just as guilty.AND,last but NOT least,our government,voting generous wages to themselves,medical coverage NO average citizen can afford,and GUARNTEED pensions so high that it's choking the life out of our country.A total collapse is emminent,maybe not in my life time.A citizen revolt to cast out the Congress and their out landish= benefits and wages would be a start.It should be an HONOR to serve in CONGRESS,,NOT a PAID position.It would be better if retirees ran the congress,only pay would be what they got in retirement or social security,they'd take care of social security then,stop the milking of the money to back private projects and such.I've often said,,,," A GOOD King would be better than what we have at the present moment",I still feel that way,especially with the emphasis on GOOD,,meaning caring for the people.Eliminate all Government wasteful spending and positions.Then he could slowly start reforming the government,limiting wages and benefits on all who are government workers such as CONGRESS,etc.let it be known it would be an HONOR to serve,not a money making scheming way to get rich.

    Doug H.
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    The wounds keep gushing but the Band-Aids are not big enough anymore.

    And to both sides a stop to spending is abhorrent.

    In my mind the only hope is to expand the Tea Party idea and possibly rename it to something that doesn't send Dimocrats into paroxysms of hate speech.

    A real party with membership and a war chest that would be able to throw support to whomever agrees with TP ideology, not necessarily fielding candidates to start with.

    A new name to dispel some of the negativity the TP has garnered.

    (A hit on Bill Maher too. NO, not feasible)

    I predict something like this will come about, at least a resurgence of TP thought.

    HM
     
  14. shadow

    shadow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,445
    One can only wish,Halfmile. One can only wish !
     
  15. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,788
    Actually, gdbabin and birdogs are both right. The pendulum will swing back to the conservative direction but that will make little difference to the financial suicide the country is facing. It might, but probably won't, slow the process down but won't stop it.

    Look at what's happening now regarding the "fiscal cliff", which in reality is nothing more than a fiscal cliff of 2 inches. Neither party is making any effort to actually cut the deficit to zero and keep it there, which is the only thing which will prevent suicide. Any politician who dared to suggest what's needed to prevent financial suicide would never be reelected.

    Invariably, politicians from both parties will keep kicking the can down the road until they get to the end of the road. People can debate how long this will take, but the ending is certain. When that happens, the only currency worth anything will be guns, ammo, food and water.
     
  16. Model Number 12

    Model Number 12 TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Messages:
    622
    Anybody who is capable of balancing a checkbook can understand the dangerous financial ground our country is treading upon.

    I've been called many things in my life but never a "doomsday prepper". Isn't there a TV show somewhere about them?
     
  17. Mapper

    Mapper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    684
    Location:
    SW Michigan
    Unless the Republican/Tea party comes up with a bullet proof charismatic candidate, it looks like down the tube and then political realignment to me. If the Government is broke, there will be no benefits. Folks will then flow away from the liberal cause(I hope). In any event, look for a different future.
     
  18. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    837
    Model Number 12 : I was trying to say the doom and gloomers are getting ready for the collapse and giving up on trying to do something about it. Anything, even if it is changing the mind of "one" liberal leaning person it is a start. If everyone of us did that it would be a jump in the right direction instead of giving up. I have two that I have converted, one was my dentist which really took a lot of talking, and he finally admitted to listening to Rush the last time I saw him. I just have a hard time listening to everyone that sounds like they have given up. What if the greatest generation simply gave up?

    Like I said, there is not one among us that does not realize what the problem is. But does it do any good to just keep repeating it?

    Paste from another post that I liked a lot > You know what's amazing, my father grew up during the Great Depression in Hazard, KY; the people there didn't realize they were poor until Pres. Kennedy visited there in the early 60's and the government told them that they were poor.


    CM
     
  19. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,918
    The Communist Don't have to be on the ballot now Obama was the"FIRST EVER" candidate that was offically endorsed by the Communist party! Why run a candidate when you already HAVE ONE!?
     
  20. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    837
    slide action : You are right, I seen a bumper sticker on a IL car in 08 that said " Obhama, socialism that we can live with"

    Same dog but now they call it the progressive party. I will do a search and see if I can find any relative insaneness between the two of which I am sure their is. So I would be wasting time.

    Not enough bullets.


    CM
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.