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Obama Signs in New Law - Trial Lawyers Rejoice

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by BT-100dc, Jan 29, 2009.

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  1. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    Obama signs into law "The Lilly Ledbetter - Fair Pay Act" today. Fox News reports that trial lawyers will be pleased as it is a boon for them in this downward spiral econonmy. Who says Obama is not stimulating the economy or at least for plaintiffs and trail lawyers? It should be noted that Lilly Leadbetter lost her court case against Goodyear under current laws. It should be further noted that ex-Pres. Bush had promised to veto it. Now the businesses will have to spend resources to avoid lawsuits & threats of lawsuits from employees. Just because it is named "Fair Pay Act" it's rediculous as such a misnomer doesn't represent what it truly reflects. Darrell
     
  2. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    In a free country you would be able to hire who you want and pay them what you want. In a free country if they don't like it they are free to get another job. Democrats don't believe in freedom.
     
  3. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    ctreay, Sure am glad I do not work for you. I do not refer to any of my employees as dinks. That dink sweeping the floor could be you next machinist with a bit of training. Lazy and dumb because your lazy are the intolerable traits in my book. jmho Bill
     
  4. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    When I was growing up my Mom was a single mother with three kids, myself, a sister not quite two years younger, and a brother five years younger. She had grown up poor herself and was struggling to try to provide for us by working two jobs, the first as a switchboard operator at a hospital run by the church she belonged to, 7 AM to 3 PM each day, and the second as a waitress at a steakhouse from about 6 pm to 2 am each day. In between she would feed us, take care of the household chores, and all of the other family responsibilities. The only help she had was her retired stepdad who would watch us during the daytime when school was not in session. When I was twelve she remarried. In fact yesterday was their 50th anniversary. Anyway, when the good brethren running the hospital found out about the marriage, they cut her pay substantially because she was no longer head of the household. Soon after she quit the job to start a new one at Blue Cross as a teletype operator (she only had to work one job because the pay was better and my Dad also had a well-paying job). By the time she retired, she was the Blue Cross administrator in charge of running Medicare for all of Oregon. Ever since the good brethren at the hospital decided that it was proper for them to pay her less because she was a woman who wasn't the head of the household, I've been militant about equal pay for equal work. Incidentally, another unit of this same church argued a case in the eighties all the way to the California Supreme Court claiming that as a religious organization they are exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act, and can pay a woman less for the same job just because she is a woman. They lost.

    The rule just changed had a very short time limit for filing suit. In many cases, like Ledbetter's, the wages paid were closely held secrets and the inequity was only discovered long after the time limit expired. You can argue all you want about the right to pay what you want, but how would you like it if the shoe were on the other foot? How about the right to pay you less because you are not a black female with a Hispanic surname who does not contribute to my firm's diversity statistics? How about the right to pay you less because you are a gun owner who wants vacations in the fall during hunting season? How about the right to pay you less because you are overweight and I don't like fat people?

    I've been in administrative positions the last 16 years, and my view is that a person's job expectations must be clearly understood between supervisor and employee, and that evaluations and subsequent rewards must be closely tied to clearly defined performance standards. You had damn well better be able to document your reasons for those evaluations and rewards, and they had better not be tied to gender, race, ethnicity, religious preference, or anything else irrelevant to job performance. An equivalent job with equivalent performance deserves equivalent pay.
     
  5. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Pocatello,


    How about your job, your tenure? Should some new guy doing the exact same job as you, be paid the exact same as you, ignoring the fact you may have busted your butt for 16 years at the same company?
     
  6. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    If he is doing the exact same job as I, to the same quality standards, yes.
     
  7. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Paladin,

    What one chooses to pay another is not necessarily our business...



    Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

    Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

    Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

    Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

    Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

    Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, [that] shall ye receive.

    Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

    Mat 20:9 And when they came that [were hired] about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

    Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

    Mat 20:11 And when they had received [it], they murmured against the goodman of the house,

    Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought [but] one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

    Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

    Mat 20:14 Take [that] thine [is], and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

    Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

    Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
     
  8. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Bob, that's a parable that is referring to salvation. It's not referring to 'work'.

    "for many be called, but few chosen"
     
  9. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Paladin,

    I agree the overall message is about salvation, however used as a work example you state "Should some new guy doing the exact same job as you, be paid the exact same as you..."

    I think the answer is "yes". If the company or boss thinks that is appropriate .... after all it is their money. I'm not saying I agree with ignoring senority, just that the "boss" or the company has the perogative to do so, just as the lord of the vinyard paid each man equally for different amounts of labor.

    Bob
     
  10. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    Equal pay for equal work. Sounds good but need to know details. Two employees with the same skills and time with the company should be the same pay. But this may be targeting grandfathered clauses in contracts. Older employees make up to $20.00 and hour but new hires can only make up to $15.00 under the terms of the contract.

    What would the company be made to do any way they go is breaking the contract.

    So if I was confronted with this by fed law I may have to reduce the higher wage to meet the lower to stay in business.

    It causes more questions than it answers. Though it is to be for equality in pay between men and women you can apply it to everyone.

    Can't really say until the details are established. And if all fails go to Mexico.

    Does it apply to all say welders everywhere make the same money?


    Rock

    Jim
     
  11. CATdiesel

    CATdiesel TS Member

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    Here where I work we have paygrade scales for every job office or factory. On the factory floor we are grade 2-6 and office starts at 15 on up. For everyone, each year you are given a performance evaluation(supervisor and coworkers grade you) and based on that you may or may not go to the next pay level in your grade until you are topped out. Does not matter with your sex, color etc.
     
  12. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    A company should be able to pay what they want. If the government would have minded it's own business we wouldn't have the divorce rate we have or the same number of single moms living on welfare or millions of Mexicans flooding into the country to fill the need for new employees or the crime rate we have. It is all interrelated. When the government tries to fix one problem they create 10 new ones. Our government has caused ALL our problems in America. The government should have stopped at child labor laws and been done with it. The government that governs least governs best.
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    I think to be fair, if one's performance falls off, that person should be offered a reduction in pay. Of course, they may refuse it. Just like in trap handicap shooting. You know, make it somehow "fair"...
     
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Bob wrote; "I think the answer is "yes". If the company or boss thinks that is appropriate .... after all it is their money".


    I agree 100%. I also believe it should not be mandated. After all "it's their money".


    Lastly, the point of that entire parable is that you can not 'labor' your way into heaven. Can not be done. Those that are saved and also spend most of their lives doing the lords work will be received into heaven, just as one is that is saved one day before they die. The entire point of that parable,, is that you must believe,,,believe in the resurrection. You can not 'work' your way to heaven. Good works are a sign of being saved though.
     
  15. Toddy

    Toddy Member

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    I know that as a Canadian I don't have a dog in this fight but here is an interesting email going around....

    From a teacher in the Nashville area:

    We are worried about "the cow" when it is all about the "Ice Cream". The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year. The presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. I decided we would have an election for a class president.

    We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote.

    To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot.

    The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids. I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. I had never seen Olivia's mother.

    The day arrived when they were to make their speeches. Jamie went first. He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. He ended by promising to do his very best. Every one applauded. He sat down and Olivia came to the podium

    Her speech was concise. She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." She sat down. The class went wild.

    "Yes! Yes! We want ice cream."

    She surely would say more. She did not have to. A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure. Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it. She didn't know The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream. Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a landslide.

    Every time Barack Obama opens his mouth he offers ice cream, fifty percent of the people react like nine year olds. They want ice cream.

    The other fifty percent know they're going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess

    PS: Bob Schultz, That was a great offer to a Canadian at christmas with your give a way but never did receive the bore cleaner....

    Reg.T., East Sooke.
     
  16. cls

    cls Member

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    The employer should determine the pay and benefits of those that they employ, not the other way around... If the employed don't like what the employer has to offer, they should find another employer.

    Seems pretty simple to me. It's called "Freedom". cls
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    EQUAL pay for EQUAL work is absolutely correct and should not even be an issue. Everyone should be paid the same amount without bias for their gender, race, nationality, religion or whatever. If someone is a very hard worker, THEN they can be rewarded with what's called a MERIT increase, but the base pay is the same for all.<br>
    <br>
    Where N.O.W. and others tried to hijack the process years ago was with the ridiculous EQUAL pay for EQUIVALENT work. This was when ultra feminists decided that a receptionist was just as valuable to a company as a heavy equipment operator, so their jobs were EQUIVALENT and thus the pay should be EQUAL.<br>
    <br>
    From what I've read published about the bill, it addresses EQUAL work, not EQUIVALENT work. If this is true, then I have no problem with it. If it is EQUIVALENT work, then I do not agree with it.
     
  18. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    If everyone was on a commission,,,,it would be fair. What profit you bring to the company, everyone gets X%,,,,so if someone makes the same amount, yet the quality is lesser, profits are lesser and therefore, pay is lesser!!!! If you have many years of experience, you will be able to produce more, at a higher quality,,,,if you don't work as hard as the next guy,,,,it will show in your check,,,,if you can't produce the required quota,,,,you are replaced....
     
  19. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Why should women not be paid the same as men for the same work? I just dont understand all of you that essentially argue against that, whether you come right out and say it as some do or whether you try to make up some other reason.

    Nothing changed in this new law with the exception of the time for filing and the time one may look back.

    Why would trial lawyers rejoice over this? Someone is confused if they think that.

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  20. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I grew up in the 50's and early 60's before feminism. A man was respected as the provider of his family. He did earn more money. None of the women on my block worked. None were divorced. Every one of my friends had their real dad living with them. Nobody locked their doors at night and we all knew each other. The women of the neighborhood had a network of friends as did the children who all played together during the day after school and in the summers. Life was good. Enter feminism. The single biggest change in Western culture. Now life sucks for most of our children. Only about half of them live with their real father. There is no crime left that would shock anybody. The women I know in high paying jobs are married to men in high paying jobs. We in the West are not even replacing ourselves. Our women have their precious careers. Children get in the way. Only our poorest and dumbest have the most children. The rest are imported from the third world where feminism doesn't exist yet. The West is dying because of it. The black and brown will inherit the earth. If I could take my wife and kids back to the way it was I would in a heartbeat. The government never had the right in a free country to tell any business who to hire and promote and what to pay them. The government causes all the rot in this country. We will end up like Europe. No men left to fight our wars. Islam, without feminism, will continue to grow. Feminism has made the West weak. Watch an episode of American Idol. Look how feminine the boys have all become. I can't tell the straight from the gay anymore. All the lines between men and women have been too blurred. No wonder half of our children are homosexual now. No wonder marriage and family are dying. No wonder Obama the idiot is now our president.
     
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