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O/T WTF Light .44 cal. handgun load

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Tugboat, Jul 1, 2008.

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  1. Tugboat

    Tugboat Member

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    Looking for a reduced load recipe that I can shoot through my model 329PD Smith and Wesson which will still have adequate self defense performance and reduced recoil.. Thanks in advance....Don
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    For self defense, use a factory 44 Spl load with a jacketed hollow point.

    For a good reload, try 6 gr Titegroup or 8 gr Unique with a 200 gr RNFP lead Cowboy bullet. Use the Magnum case for this load, it cleans up easier, and gives a little better accuracy.
     
  3. deercreek

    deercreek Well-Known Member

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    Don't remember the grains used but I have shot Clays powder with hard cast (240 grain) bullets--very clean with low pressure.
     
  4. uplate

    uplate TS Member

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    Magnum brass, 250 gr. cast semi wadcutter, 6.2 gr. Bullseye, standard primer.
    830 fps and very accurate in my 4 in. S&W Md. 29
     
  5. AJKohler

    AJKohler Member

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    Light loads are all over the place, but for defense, find out what shells your local police of sheriff's office uses and get those in your caliber. Using reloads is an invitation to an expensive lawsuit. Using the loads your local law enforcement uses is not only probably more effective than your reloads, but makes it very difficult for an attorney to make ridiculous (but effective to a gun-ignorant jury) claims about your ammunition.

    Tony
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The trick to low recoil is reducing the bullet weight and velocity. Here is a powder puff load I used in the cowboy game;

    .44 special case
    165 g cast lead rnfp
    3.5g CLAYS
    Federal large pistol primer.

    You will end up with about 850 fps with this load.

    A word of caution in making the powder puff loads, don't use .44 mag brass, there is too much case capacity. .44 Russian brass is an even better choice for this kind of thing but you would need the correct seating/crimping die.
     
  7. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The subject of law suits and ammo type came up in one of our CCW classes and our DA did quite a bit of research on the issue. Basically he could not find any cases where the type of ammunition used in a shooting determined the outcome of the proceedings. It comes down to whether or not a person was justified in using deadly force. This isn't a catch and release game. Also not too many PD's use .44 mag revolvers so it would be difficult to copy their ammo selection in this case.

    So how about it, do we have an urban legend here or does any one know of any actual case histories?
     
  8. hairy

    hairy TS Member

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    "for one purpose and that was to kill and maim his client".....What load could you use that wouldn't do that?
     
  9. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    I can just hear it now. Why are you using what the police use? Do you think your a cop? Do you have the traing the cops have???? etc, etc.

    I like to match the load to the purpose. I carry with "Self Defense" loads because that is what I carry a gun for in the first place. Leaves little doubt about the reason for my choice should it ever go to court. Most of these loads are designed to expand rapidly and help avoid over-penetration. Better for what is beyond your target.

    JMHO

    Bob
     
  10. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    Hairy

    The purpose would be to defend one's self. I don't carry to kill or maim. One carry to defend.

    Bob
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure maiming and/or killing would be the intent when firing any gun at a person, you really don't need to be much of a lawyer to convince a jury of that.

    The question was whether or not you knew of actual litigation in a shooting case where the type of ammuniton used was a factor in determining if the use of deadly force was justified. My guess is that you don't.

    By the way I don't think reloads are a good idea for a carry gun because of reliability issues. I also don't think a small .44 mag is a good carry gun but the guy asking about a light recoiling .44 load didn't ask for those commentaries.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    CCI Blaser .44 special 200 gr JHP. Much lighter than the .44 mag and has a decent bullet construction. Shot them in an old Charter Bulldog and they worked well enough. For light reloads, I'd take a serious look at the new Trail Boss IMR powder. It's VERY bulky and has worked very well for reduced loads in all calibers I've tried it in. It's made for Cowboy Action loads, but that's a similar loading. I've used it in the .44 mag with cast bullets in the 200 gr range. Check the Hodgdon/IMR site for loading data. They can guide you if the bullet type you'd like to use is not listed.

    I also don't care to fire lot's of shorter shells in a magnum chamber. Some people have no problem with it, but I had a cylinder that needed some work after doing so and eventually replaced it. I prefer to use the regular magnum brass with an extremely bulky powder in reduced loads. Trail Boss is the new choice for lighter practice loads. For lighter Magnum class loads, I've used Blue Dot with good results. There is also the old standby, Unique. 800-X worked fairly well also. The H110 and WW296 powders should not be reduced more than a few percent in the magnum loadings, so they are a choice for the full house loads only. There are many suitable powders for moderate magnum loads.
     
  13. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    So you are talking about what you think an expert said on the matter but you really don't know of a case where the type of ammo used in a shooting has been a factor in determining whether the shooting was justified or was a criminal act. That is the question. And before your panties get knotted up further, this is a legitimate question not an attempt to show you up or put you on the ropes.

    I can tell you that our DA did contact Massad Ayoob and several other professionals about this subject and didn't find that ammo choice was a factor in criminal proceedings. We are fortunate to have a DA that tries to give the best legal advice possible to his community - particularly to the students in the CCW classes that he helps with. He is one of the good guys, he wants his community to have the right to self defense, he doesn't want to see law abiding people charged with a BS felonies.

    The reason it is important to know about this issue is not because I want to pack handloads around or that I think its a good practice but because anything a lawyer could say about the evils of handloaded ammo they could also say about readily available commercially loaded ammo. I just wanted to know if the left has actually made this leap in their efforts to eliminate our rights to self defense.
     
  14. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    First problem is putting the word "expert" with Ayoob's name. The guy is a hack that makes his money putting words on paper. He's never worked for a living as a cop but is a reserve in a tiny little town. Reserve might be better than never putting on a uniform but if you have any real experience and read his articles, you'll figure out pretty quick he's not all about real stuff but more about making crap up to have an article. He's also a professional "witness" that will come in and give his B.S. opinions to whoever will pay him the most money. That doesn't mean he really knows what he's doing as we have an "expert" firearms examiner that is retired and does that kind of crap. I've seen him testify and he'll lie on the stand or just make stuff up so he gets paid. He'd been made to look like a fool about every time he does this but the defense folks will hire him anyway hoping for any amount of smoke to change the outcome.
    No one has ever been able to come up with a real court case that involved the use of reloads which in turn was a court problem. If you load to a velocity that is equal or less than factory loads using a factory produced projectile there isn't much place for them to go with it. There's way more things to address in the shooting itself than the ammo. The civil suit will follow in just about any shooting and the type of ammo will be the least of your worries.
     
  15. mallardfilmore

    mallardfilmore TS Member

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    there are some people have followed Ayoob's advice and they weren't too happy with it in the end when they figured out what a wind bag he is. However, those folks are like him and don't do that job for a living but are range ninjas.
     
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