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O/T Unreal future fuel production!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Shooting Jack, Aug 14, 2008.

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  1. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Watch the video. It is amazing what the future can hold in the production of fuels. Be especially watchful of the last sentence concerning how much area it will take to produce enough fuel for the entire USA. Didn't get a cost on the venture but they indicate it's for real. Jackie B.
     
  2. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Interesting film clip,however hydrogen fuel cells are the future of transportaion. All the major vehicle producers have fuel cell vehicles that are being tested by fleets like UPS we should see personal vehicles on the market by 2020 hope I make it.
     
  3. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    If this info is correct then the US (or world) will have plenty of hydrocarbon fuels WITHOUT oil. Can you say "Sayonara to middle eastern oil?" I hope I live long enough to see them run out of oil or to see it become worthless.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  4. nspktr1

    nspktr1 TS Member

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    Bruce,
    Honda has a fuel cell vehicle in the US market now. Only available in California for now in limited numbers. Check out this website for the Clarity.

    http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
     
  5. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    If (IF) Fuel Cell Vehiicles hit the market you will see .75 cent Gas . Now will you trade your car if you can buy gas cheap ??
     
  6. M-16

    M-16 TS Member

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    ALF-99 you forgot the number before .75 If it went that cheap there would be no reason for people to buy alt vehicals, and by the time that would happen gas tax's would be above .75. Currently it costs around $.80 per gal from the price of crude at the well to off road diesel at the pump
     
  7. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    nspktr1, your correct Honda does have a fuel cell powered vehicle for sale and it is in fact a prototype however you won't hear that from Honda. The vehicle has many limitations that will be worked out and all the major car makers will have a vaiety of fuel cell vehicles in the market for everyone by 2020.
     
  8. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Bruce, it may even be sooner than that! I'll say 2015 for a real dent in cars. Lets say around 10% of vehicles by 2015 and around 30% by 2020. Honda is even developing a Hydrogen producer to install in your home garage! It is connected to your standard natural gas line and produces hydrogen to fuel your car right in your own garage!
    -Trappy
     
  9. perazzitms

    perazzitms TS Member

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    Shift from one problem, and you run into another.

    Honda's home fuel cell generator uses an enormous amount of electricity. Don't know about you but my electric rates have gone up almost as fast as fuel. If it's converting NG to hydrogen, what's the use? I'm paying as much for LP gas as I am for fuel. Fuel cells are a boon to the enviro-nazis; not penny-pinchers.

    See anybody out there coming up with hybrid semis? Do you really want to fly in an electric airplane? What happens when the nicads run low over the north Atlantic? The FAA is not going to certify any alternative fuels for airplanes for the foreseeable future. They don't want their tits in the ringer when the bio diesel in the fuel tanks freezes into slime in the -60 degree environment at 40,000 feet.

    It all may sound good, but don't plan on the demise of crude oil any time within the next 50 years.
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the deal with anything identified as using hydrogen.

    Generally, hydrogen isn't just out there laying around. Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not a primary energy source. You hae to generate it.

    Commonly from electrolysis of water (which uses a bunch of electricity as perazzitms noted) or from natural gas. There are other ways, like algae, but none has been demonstrated on a large scale.

    How much natural gas do we have? Opinions vary. If you're going to use naterual gas to make hydrogen to run a car, why not just use the natural gas directly?

    Either way, you're trading one energy source for another.

    If lots and lots of people are using hydrogen in a fuel cell or a hydrogen-fueled engine, that means there are lots and lots of megawatts being generated to make that hydrogen, using either coal, natural gas, oil, or nuclear, (and maybe a little wind or solar.)

    Time will tell, but I hydrogen has a lot of drawbacks.
     
  11. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Plants are able to form hydrogen without using electricity. Scientists are studying this process of plants like never before in attempt to discover how they do it and how we can do it on a large scale. I have no doubts about humans being able to accomplish such a task. We put a man on the moon for God's sake! Will it take some time? Of course! But will it be worth it? You bet!

    perazzitms, don't look for any alternative fuel to be much cheaper than what gas is now, it's probably not going to happen.
    -Trappy
     
  12. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I can make my own gas...
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Well Trappy, yes we did put a man on the moon. One of our greatest achievements.

    On the other hand, in the 50's nuclear fusion was hailed as the next great advance in power generation, but now, 50 years later, we still haven't gotten a controlled fusion reaction to generate more energy than it took to get it started.

    We were going to have colonies on the moon, and we'd have a man on mars, whipping around in flying cars like the Jetsons too by this time, by some accounts.

    My point is, don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

    Before we hail the hydrogen economy as the solution to our automotive fuel problems, lets first demonstrate we can economically generate hydrogen on an industrial scale before we build all these hydrogen fuel cell cars and hydrogen burning engines. That's the easy part.
     
  14. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    The wackos simply want everyone to get their automotive power from an electricity plant - because electric plants are REGULATED UTILITIES, and government officials have their hand on the power switch.


    They can't control how much you drive your car. As long as you have the money to buy gas, you are free to live your fat, ugly, no-prisoners capitalist American way of life...and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. Millions of automobiles out there, with the ignition key, steering wheel, and shift lever in the hands of an individual they can't control.


    But - take away the ability of that car to "generate" its own power - just start plugging that thing into the power grid, and they have got you by the balls. Once all your automotive power comes through the choke-point of a power plant, they can flip a switch on how much you drive.


    They lost control of the oil consumption situation long ago. They want to rectify that now. Getting all auto power to come from a central generation plant is a bureaucrat's dream.


    And if you think we have plenty of coal, and we'll always be able to burn all of it we want cheaply, you're not paying attention. The "War on Coal" is fully underway. You can't read a paper without hearing them say how "dirty" it is, etc.

    You heard it here,,,!!!,,,
     
  15. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    Natural Gas companies have been using Nat Gas for fuel in their service vans and trucks for years. Some companies even installed public fueling stations, but later closed them due to lack of public use. You can now install a Nat Gas pump in your own gargle if you can pipe the line to the pump. It is supposed to work good for vehicles which deliver local services. Try to find a Nat Gas fueling station here in the Midwest and you may be SOL. Propane fueling stations are much more plentiful spread across the nation. Schwan's ice cream use Prop Gas for most of their trucks. Nat Gas trucks run out of storage for their fuel quickly I have read. Many cities currently are not set up with bike paths to offer commuters a safe ride to work. Mass rail systems have not kept up with our European neighbors. Government will FIND a way to tax ANY fuel we use as this is how they pay for most of the road upkeep. Most states don't have enough gasoline tax dollars to pay for current road projects due to the consumers cutting back on their road trips. Where will the taxes be moved to now? JMHO Omaha
     
  16. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Omaha you asked a very important question and I'd like to know the answer also. I think the money will have to come from a tax on the vehicles or a componet of them like the tires. I don't know but when the money dries up because of the different fuels being used and not taxed like we currently are taxing them the money will have to come from somewhere. Most likely a componet that all vehicles use. Possible the tires. Who knows? Dan
     
  17. hreinke

    hreinke TS Member

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    You guys ever hear of a guy named Stan Meyer. Had a dunebuggy that ran on water.
    Google him for the full story, at one time he was offered 1 billion dollars by OPEC, to hold back on his process.
     
  18. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the Stan Meyer who was found guilty of fraud when it was found his water car really didn't do what he claimed it would (violate a couple of the basic laws of thermodynamics?)

    "Meyer claimed to have adapted a 1.6-liter Volkswagen Dune Buggy to run on
    water. He replaced the spark plugs with "injectors" which, he said, sprayed
    water as a fine mist in a "resonant cavity" where it was bombarded by a
    succession of high-voltage electrical pulses. He claimed this instantly
    converted the water into a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that could be
    combusted in the cylinders, driving the pistons just as in an ordinary
    gasoline engine.

    One of the experts due to examine the car was Michael Laughton, professor
    of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London,
    but he was not allowed to see it. "Although Meyer had known about our
    visit weeks in advance, when we arrived he made some lame excuse about why
    the car wasn't working, so it was impossible to evaluate it," said
    Laughton.

    However, the one thing Meyer had built that appeared to work was his Water
    Fuel Cell, and it was this device that the Ohio judge called as evidence in
    the recent lawsuit.

    The cell had been the centerpiece of Meyer's sales pitches. It was a
    transparent cylinder of water inside which was a core of stainless steel
    electrodes. When plugged into an electrical supply, the cell bubbled away
    merrily, producing apparently copious amounts of gas that Meyer ignited
    through a welding torch. To the layman it was an impressive performance and
    hundreds of small investors signed up, but it did not impress three expert
    witnesses in court.

    They decided that there was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and
    that it was simply using conventional electrolysis.

    Meyer was found guilty of 'gross and egregious fraud' and ordered to repay
    the investors their $25,000."
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Buzz-gun brings up an interesting view on electric vehicles. I remember back in the early 1970's the "energy crisis". The local regulatory agency decided that electricity needed to be conserved, so it was rationed by setting the rates in a tier structure. The lowest tier was for the average household to get by each month. The next tiers increased in cost per kilowatt hour as you used more electricity. Imagine what that would do for electric car owners.<br>
    <br>
    BTW, Obama has this all figured out. Just stop driving your SUVs so much and air up your tires! While you cling to god and guns.
     
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