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o/t: True Definition of a Patriot by a Repub

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by revsublime, Jun 13, 2007.

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  1. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    This republican's speech is for all those who claim that those who disagree with this administration's decision to invade Iraq are unpatriotic.

    Finally, a politician that states that he is a Constitutionalist. He just might get my vote.

    ...
    What I have heard all too frequently from various individuals are sharp accusations that, because their political opponents disagree with them on the need for foreign military entanglements, they were unpatriotic, un-American evildoers deserving contempt.

    The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power.

    The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility and out of self-interest for himself, his family, and the future of his country to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. Resistance need not be violent, but the civil disobedience that might be required involves confrontation with the state and invites possible imprisonment...

    ... Liberals, who withhold their taxes as a protest against war, are vilified as well, especially by conservatives. Unquestioned loyalty to the state is especially demanded in times of war. Lack of support for a war policy is said to be unpatriotic. Arguments against a particular policy that endorses a war, once it is started, are always said to be endangering the troops in the field. This, they blatantly claim, is unpatriotic, and all dissent must stop. Yet, it is dissent from government policies that defines the true patriot and champion of liberty.

    It is conveniently ignored that the only authentic way to best support the troops is to keep them out of dangerous undeclared no-win wars that are politically inspired. Sending troops off to war for reasons that are not truly related to national security and, for that matter, may even damage our security, is hardly a way to patriotically support the troops.

    Who are the true patriots, those who conform or those who protest against wars without purpose? How can it be said that blind support for a war, no matter how misdirected the policy, is the duty of a patriot?
     
  2. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is you are obviously looking for more to argue about so. My question, is he talking about the same patriots that are voting to give away this country to the illegal aliens from south of the border? You know the same ones that come here and ignore our laws and way of life to get a piece of the pie, the American Dream because they feel we owe them something.

    Maybe it just that we don't owe the people that died on 9-11 anything. I mean after all they were only going about their daily lives they deserved it. Right???????? Please don't give me any of that crap that they didn't have anything to do with 9-11. the World Trade Center was taken out by Muslim Extremists the fight in Iraq is being prolonged by insurgents(Muslim Extremists)so we should cut and run YA RIGHT. Oh you Patriots, Remember the Alamo, Remember September 11, 2001.

    Bob Lawless
     
  3. KelleyPLK

    KelleyPLK TS Member

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    CLOSE THE BOARDER AND PROTECT THE AMERICAN JOBS HERE ! REPUBS ARE GENERALLY AGAINST THE WORKING MAN ,NOW THEY SEEM HELLBENT TO DISTROY THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE . WE CANT ALL SELL DRUGS IN WASHINGTON DC . AND MAKE A LIVING . THIS IS THE MOST ABSENT BUNCH OF HYPOCRITS OUR COUNTRY HAS EVER BEEN SUBJECTED TOO .IM a staunch conservative not a cokehead or alcoholic




    PAT KELLEY
     
  4. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    Ivanhoe...if you will check history you will find that the muslim extremist did not show up in Iraq until after we invaded. Saddam was a secular leader and had no love for bin laden types. Which was why he made such a great buffer zone between extremist Iran and moderate Saudi Arabia.

    Now that we HAVE invaded and created the largest terrorist training camp known to man (using our soldiers as targets) do I think we should cut and run? NO! You're assuming things. DO i think we should continue patrolling the streets in baghdad and keep getting killed by ied's? Hell no. I believe we pull out of the hot spots...guard the borders from more terrorists & weapons coming in and let the shia & sunni kill each other off...then mop up the mess.

    And since Ron Paul is a republican...Im pretty sure he is not talking about giving away the country to illegal immigrants like Bush is talking about.
     
  5. jnoemanh

    jnoemanh TS Member

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    The libertarian ideas can sound enticing until you get into the details. I've spent a good bit of time in the Dakotas, where most people consider themselves self-reliant and divorced from national politics. Many call themselves libertarian...until you remind them that true libertarians would not agree to tax based farm subsidies. All of a sudden they become Democrats.
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Interesting "guard the borders from more terrorists & weapons coming in and let the shia & sunni kill each other off...then mop up the mess." are they all going to wear signs on their chest that says terrorist or if they don't maybe we should just guess at what their beliefs are. BTW what makes you think they are going to let us know that they are bring in a new load of weapons. WE can't even keep the illegals out of our own country and they are readily recognizable over there they all look the same and you have this simple plan. I am amazed I don't understand why you aren't running this war. Yea that would make me sleep a lot easier at night RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I think this is the same man who said not to retaliate even if one of our cities took a nuclear hit with large casualties numbers. Not my kind of guy.

    Don
     
  8. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    I've yet to study Ron Paul...just come across his speech and coming from a "labled" republican, it caught my attention. Should it turn out that he is truly a Libertarian...then no, he wouldnt be for me. I love some libertarian ideas but they tend to be too far right for my comfort on many others.

    Ivanhoe...we cant keep the illegals out of our country because big business wants them to do our dirty work, hence, we haven't really tried to stop them in any serious way.

    Big Don...recheck the debates, the question was about a PRE-EMPTIVE nuclear strike. Not a retaliatory strike. "...I think it is the acceptance just recently that we now promote preemptive war. I do not believe that’s part of the American tradition... And now, tonight, we hear that we’re not even willing to remove from the table a preemptive nuclear strike against a country that has done no harm to us directly and is no threat to our national security!" This was after the other 9 candidates pretty much said...we cant rule out a nuclear pre-emptive strike.
     
  9. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    good point wireguy.


    Frankly...I'm kinda sick of the fact that since 1970 we've spent over $1 trillion dollars on the "War on Drugs" and drug use is still the same now as it was then. Matter o' fact...cocaine is far cheaper now.

    Politicians didnt learn that prohibition does not work...it only empowers the Black Market.
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    revsublime you said "Ivanhoe...we cant keep the illegals out of our country because big business wants them to do our dirty work, hence, we haven't really tried to stop them in any serious way." Does that mean that a true Patriot would let big business change the law without benefit of a majority vote?

    Devil'sAdvocate I for one never said Bush was a Patriot. I will however say that the Democrats voted to go to war just like the Republicans. Now we have thousands of our troops in harms way and the Democrats propose legislation to stop funding to the war not what I would call a Patriotic move.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    No ivan...a true patriot would not let big business change the law without benefit of a majority vote. But...guess what? They've bought the majority vote.

    Best I can do is not vote for the big business paid candidates...which sadly, removes all the front runners as far as I can see...and as far as campaign contribution reports show.

    Frankly, i'd like to see all lobbyists and corporate contributions erased. They've been buying candidates for far too long and we pay the price.
     
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