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O/T Mig Welding

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by wayneo, Sep 10, 2010.

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  1. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Just passed my AWS 3G and 4G with 3/8" plate 7018 . I'm having a hard time with vertical up MIG. I have been welding stick for twenty years, but never MIG. Test is 3/8" steel plate, 1/4 root gap, 22.5 degree bevel. Machine is Miller 450, 0.035 wire, 95 argon, 5 02. I've got it set for 18 volts, 264 IPM. Any tips??? Just having a hard time, seems like vertical up with 7018 is a lot easier than MIG. Thanks for any info.

    Wayne
     
  2. trapshooterjoe7

    trapshooterjoe7 Member

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    What wire are you using, if its not an all position wire like "71 m " you are not going to weld a vertical. Do you have book on welding? With the right wire and setup , mig is so much easier then stick. Joe
     
  3. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Thanks, Joe. I believe the wire I'm using is; Solid Carbon Steel ES-70-6

    Wayne
     
  4. kie95

    kie95 Member

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    Try running it down hand it runs so much smoother. Mig vertical up is not very fun to weld, all it does is grape and run like it's to hot. You can set up to run uphill with a spray style machine but real hard to do with a standard wire feed system.
     
  5. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    Stacking dimes.. that is what we call it.. when I do vertical up on my miller mig I weld left to right, stop, let cool for a second, then weld right to left.. stop, let cool for a second.. and do it all the way up.. it will look like you have a stack of real pretty dimes there for your weld.. works every time.. good luck!
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    What blkcld says about hesitating at the sides before commencing changing directions and continuing to weld is important. The middle of the weld is the hottest, and by hesitating at the edges, which are slightly cooler, you're giving the middle a chance to cool down too. This is what prevents sags, runs, etc. Practice turning the wire speed down a bit, and back off the amperage, but not so much that you fail to get penetration.

    Edit: And make sure the tip is parallel to the metal as it moves, that you aren't moving it in a slight arc.

    And don't feel bad. I can do great welds with stick. Took a lot of practice to make the switch to wire feed.
     
  7. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Black cloud has the technique down, only thing I do differently is I dont stop just weave back and forth getting that fish scale stack. A lot of test shops will not allow a downhand pass it must be verticle, that being said after the root and hot pass is in, you are generally left alone on filling and capping. Just flat cap it before you turn it over to the xray techs. You might slow your wire speed down a tad, in order to keep the grapes at bay, Steady and smooth count to yourself if you need to for proper timing. Old pipe welder here myself 40+ yrs at it. Mig, Tig, Smaw, Dimetrics and even oxy acetylene, carbon steel, chrome, stainless, inconnell, monel, aluminium bronze, aluminium J.W. Good luck It's just hand eye cooredination.

    PS- Wayneo, I taught all disciplines for Daniels, Brown and Root, Davis, BE&K Ebasco, and when I got off the road I taught the Maintenance personell at Tyson Foods. If you ever have any questions that I might be of assistance with feel free to PM me. J.Woolsey
     
  8. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    Argon sinks quickly, I always used helium when I wire-feed vert up, stays over the puddle better. That was the recipe when I was in school for Welding and Metal Fab.

    The left right passes was the way I was taught and you have to play with the juice and feed to get it to settle in after you heat up your plate.
    When you start its cold so its always lumpy starting out so start it hot then back it off. Its the only way I know to make it uniform.
    I have to admit I like Tig and Stick better.

    Good luck,
     
  9. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you guys just made my day - I am a week end warrior at best when it comes to welding, and vertical MIG was the killer for me.

    Found that 'bumping' the gun - moving L to R or R to L and stopping to let things cool worked best... when all was done a final pass could fill in the 'uglies.'
     
  10. trapshooterjoe7

    trapshooterjoe7 Member

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    What Black cloud said is the proper way to run a vert,JWOOLSEY, did you work for Brown&Root when they were at West Vaco in Westernport MD? Joe
     
  11. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Thanks for all the info. I'll try some different settings on Monday. Can you "whip" the wire in and out of the puddle like you do 6010? Thanks again.

    Wayne
     
  12. shootintom

    shootintom TS Member

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    Most if not all welding questions can be answered on a web site called "welding Tips & Tricks" http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

    If I read your post correctly you are using Argon and Oxygen? Try Argon/Co2 and you may have better luck.

    Vertical Up! Yeah, vertical down is easier but it's not eeven close to being strong enough. For the most part you need to practice, practice, practice! The technique is basically an inverted "V" and keep moving up, your voltage sounds about right since you can't weld up too hot or you really run into trouble. Pause slightly at each side but not long or it will run. Check out the website and you should be alright. Jody puts out a lot of great information.

    Tom

    PS - The place I used to work for if you got caught doing vertical down you'd lose your job!
     
  13. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    Did you say 1/4" root opening? That sounds kind of wide. That 45 degree bevel sounds kind of wide too. I don't mig weld much, but around 3/32" root gap and about a total bevel of 37 1/2 degrees is a common tig or stick e6010 root pass fit up.
     
  14. zelmo96

    zelmo96 Member

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    If you can use a Pulse Mig Machine the vertical up will be easier. .035 wire at around 160 ipm and 18 volts is a good place to start. Argon CO2 mix works the best. Keep the heat on the thickest member and try your stick welding technique. You will feel the difference and adjust your technique to suit you the best. Weldind down will not give you the strenght you need. It is ok for sheet metal but not good for structural work. Good luck and welding is like trap shooting, practice and concentration. Al Baker
     
  15. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    Wayneo had it correct in his first post, argon and 02. 02 is carbon dioxide, oxygen is just 0. I took a little welding class at work some time ago and the weaving back and forth with the slight pause at each side is what they taught us on verticle. Wire is much more forgiving than stick by a long ways. practice practice is what it takes. The class I took was more of an enrichment type of thing, no certification but just the basics of wire welding. Good luck.
     
  16. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Trapshooterjoe, I was not at Westvaco. J.W.
     
  17. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Carbon Dioxide is CO2, O is Oxygen O2 is Ozone

    I've never seen a 75% Argon and 25% Oxygen mixture, not saying there isn't one out there but for MIG most people use 75% Argon, and 25% CO2
     
  18. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    I realized my mistake when I typed and sent my comment about 02 being Carbon dioxide, Yes it is written C02. I don't think you would want or ever have 0 or oxygen in the arc as the gasses being inert are what you want so the arc does not oxidize the material being welded. I believe he made a little mistake and meant C02.
     
  19. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Thanks for all the help. Sorry about the gas confusion, it is 95% Argon, 5% Oxygen. The test is AWS D1.1 3G GMAW, 3/8" plate. Thanks again. Wayne
     
  20. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I built a whole building running 70S6 on 100% CO2..
    Why would you need any other gas???
     
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