1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

O.T. Concrete work O.T.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Bubba, Apr 21, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bubba

    Bubba Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    232
    Location:
    Baton Rouge Louisiana
    Need some concrete work done at the house. Want a pad to use for parking vehicles so they are not directly in the driveway. This pad will be to the side of the existing driveway.

    Anyway, the pad will be 17'x25' with a 3x5 flare at each end where it adjoins the driveway.

    What should I expect to pay a contractor to do the excavation and concrete work? Job will be in SW Ohio, and I realize there are different charges in different areas of the US.

    What about construction? Any specifics on type or grade of concrete, etc? Thanks for any suggestions. At my age, it is no longer a DIY job, (would be a DIE job, lol)
     
  2. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,230
    Location:
    In the Cabana
    Here in N Texas, it runs between $3-5 per sq ft, and that varies widly, I have a guy that does slabs for me that is $3 per sq ft, but he is a long ways from you.

    A far as the mix, can't really help you there, but we pour it about 4-6 inches thick, use plenty of rebar, and we also have to use " select fill" over our clay, because clay moves alot, and in our area that's all we have, but have had good luck with select fill
     
  3. docjonsn

    docjonsn TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    81
    $3-5 per sq ft is about what we pay here in the San Francisco bay area and we pour it at 6 inches thick over a compacted gravel bed of 3/4 minus, plenty of rebar(we go with about a 16 inch grid)and a vapor barrier 3 mil thick.

    I hope this helps

    Pete
     
  4. cementman

    cementman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Milford, Michigan
    If you have a clay or hard ground subgrade you will require a 4" sand base in addition to the concrete thickness. The concrete should be 6" thick, 6 sack, 4000PSI and most importantly "Air Entrained" for exposure to Ohio freeze thaw cycles. Would definitely recommend the use of a synthetic fiber reinforcing such as "Fibermesh", about a $100.00 cost for your job. With a 6" slab thickness and fibermesh would not worry about putting any additional mesh or rebar. Have to make sure that the contractor does not place the concrete too wet, should keep at a 4 to 5 inch slump. This might be best accomplished by having him order the concrete with an admixture call Mid Range Water Reducer, an additional $50.00 cost. The concrete could be ordered at a 6" slump with the Mid Range but in fact is only a 4" water slump. Slab should be jointed, either sawcut or tooled, about 8' on center each way. With the excavation, 4" sand,a concrete mix and the Fibermesh about $5.00 per square foot is about right.
     
  5. ouch

    ouch Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    280
    Cement man or ?, Please tell me what "air entrained" is. I am looking at having a pole barn built, Aprox.50X70 feet and am wanting to learn a little before I start talking to contractors. Thank you! Richard
     
  6. cementman

    cementman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Milford, Michigan
    Air entrainment is actually an admixture to the concrete at the time of batching in the plant. The admixture forms bubbles thoughout the concrete thickness to reduce or absorb stresses from freezing. The additional cost of this admixture is pennies compared to the total cost of concrete material. For a complete understanding of "concrete air entrainment", just do a Google search. Keep in mind that this is only required for exterior concrete that is subject to freeze-thaw conditions. Under no circumstances would air entrainment be used for interior concrete with a smooth power troweled finish at time of placement.
     
  7. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,477
    full air is nice, but sure makes it harder to finish.
     
  8. ouch

    ouch Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    280
    Thank you guys, I did not want to steal this thread, But since it's faded away give me some more info.

    I am going to buid a new shop at my farm, A 50 X 70 pole barn to store and/or work on my farm equoipment.

    They will frame the building minus the roof and leave. Then I will do the plumbing,floor drains,In slab conduit,Then radiant heat tubing. The concreate will be pumped from the untrussed roof. And the crew will return to finish the building.

    I have a local companny that will finish the concreate and I'm sure they can advise me,But please give me your thoughts on what I need to order from the ready mix companny,Rebar,Mesh ect.

    The barn pad is compacted red clay and I am in the snow belt ( Ohio ). Thanks in advance,Richard
     
  9. cementman

    cementman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Milford, Michigan
    Sounds like your pole barn will be heated and not subject to freeze/thaw cycles so no need for an air entrained mix. What you do want from y our transit mix supplier is a 6 sack, 4000PSI, non-air concrete mix. In addition would order the concrete with a Mid Range Water Reducer at 6" delivered slump. This would provide for a quality, pumpable concrete material. Slab thickness should be in the range of 5" to 6" placed on a minimum 4" sand base over your red clay. Sawcut control joints in the slab placed 10' on center each way, both directions and eventually sealed with a flexible epoxy joint sealant. Regarding reinforcement, would still suggest synthetic fibers such as Fibermesh 650, by Propex Systems, 3 lb/cy. If you went with rebar it would have to be #4 bars, 12" o.c., each way and supported on sandplate chairs, mesh would be 6" x 6", 2.9/2.9 and supported the same. Rebar, quite costly with mesh a bit cheaper but neither cost effective. In addition, with a bunch of laborers and finishers walking over the mesh or bar placed on chairs eventually ends up on in the lower third of the slab on even on the ground which does no good at all.
     
  10. GSPBirdDog

    GSPBirdDog TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    66
    Here in indiana i paid $2400 for a 20'X24' pad 6" thick reinforced with rebar and fiber.....and that was excavation and all.
     
  11. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,048
    ouch, since using for farm equipment, 6" slab, 4000 min psi mix, 6 ga mesh (commonly called paving mesh). You can play with the subgrade and add sand to 4" like "cementman" states. It may matter or it may not. I wouldn't pay for the rebar as you don't need it for how the slab will be used.

    Now Iam curious. With a building this size why your pumping it through the roof? Obviously its accesiable as your using it for farm equipment.
     
  12. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,477
    I also like fiber. Almost every time I tear out a slab the wire is on the bottom of the slab at grade.
     
  13. cementman

    cementman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Milford, Michigan
    The reasoning behind using a 4" sand cushion is that concrete, no matter how old is continously moving and creating horizontal friction between the bottom of the slab and subgrade. The sand cushion actually serves as a slip sheet to avoid friction that would result in excessive cracking and heaving. I also question pumping as the method of placement because of the cost factor. If you have an overhead door the a height clearance of 13'-4" a ready mix truck can get right into the building otherwise a couple of power buggies can handle the 65 cy of concrete you will be using. The 6 guage mesh referenced above would be satisfactory but is not a paving type reinforcement which is generally 6"x12" 00/4, a much thicker diameter rod. Again the fibers I mentioned avove would be my choice because I know they will be distributed in the entire thickness of the slab unlike mesh which most likely will either end up on the ground or certainly not in the correct position.
     
  14. ouch

    ouch Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    280
    Thank you for this great information. As this project gets closer I may have addional questions. What a great wealth of information! Richard
     
  15. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,309
    You are getting some good free advice here. I just want to add that if you want to use mesh instead of the fiber mesh cost on your concrete just make sure that when the concrete is being poured that someone is pulling the mesh up with a mesh hook so it's not laying on the bottom of the concrete. It's easily done the "mucker" just stays with the boys on the screed and pulls the mesh just before the concrete is screeded by the finishers. That keeps the mesh up where it is supposed to be and you save the cost of the fiber mesh with a better finish on top and the same resulting strength of concrete. Dan
     
  16. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,753
    I thought the wire mesh was supposed to be near the bottom of the concrete, but of course not on the bottom.
     
  17. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,246
    It's smart to educate yourself and shop around like you're doing, but you still want to hire a ptofessional. Dealing with a butchered "Brother in-law" concrete job is a nightmare. And often you don't find out you've got a bad job until months, or years down the road.

    -Gary
     
  18. cementman

    cementman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    353
    Location:
    Milford, Michigan
    Mesh positioning should be mid depth of the concrete thickness.

    I purposely stayed away from the actual methods of the installation of the mesh fabric not wanting to open up a can of worms. The ultimate method is to place sand plate chairs or brick supports 2 to 3 foot o.c.e.w.. The other two common methods are to lay mesh on the ground and "hook up" or to actually walk the mesh in the fresh concrete.

    This lifting up or walking in is usually done by workmen who must walk in the wet concrete. Either on of these procedures is haphazard and unsatisfactory method of positioning the mesh reinforcing within the slab. It is ineffective and inefficient in that portions of the mesh which remain at the bottom of the slab are wasted since they have no reinforcing value. Varying heights of the mesh location within the slab may actually have a damaging effect upon the slab due to the different stresses induced, i.e., portions of the mesh near the bottom of the slab may be considered to be in tension, whileportions of the mesh near the top of the slab would be in compression.

    These conditions occurring one or more times within a given width and/or length of a slab conceivably would induce stresses working against each other and weaken the slab to the extent of causing cracking. In view of this possibility theinstallation of wire mesh by the usual method may be more harmful than beneficial, as far as reinforcement is concerned.
     
  19. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    840
    During the last 30 years I have torn out many square feet of concrete with a backhoe or a excavator. Concrete poured with wire mesh is always in the base. Very little of it in the concrete. Comes out easy.I would say a waist of money. Concrete poured with re bar elevated with stools now that's another story. Wire mesh never rolls out flat making it harder to use. You can pull it up all you want but i think it settles right back were it started on the bottom.
     
  20. quartering

    quartering Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,440
    agreed. for a hpb not/s to s/t no air e/mix is required. no h 6/sac 4k fib/msh is recommended. 4 over 4 w/o rew or reb should be adequate, sccj 10 oc perp to diag w/jseal. 3x chairs if rec w/4k no fib/msh. the nice thing about concrete is that it's hard to screw it up. and, if you somehow do, you can always just scrape it off and try it again. good luck with it
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.