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O/T Carry Questions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Golani, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. Golani

    Golani TS Member

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    I am trying to find the ideal carry piece for my daughter. She is small and recoil sensitive but loves to shoot .22LR revolvers.
    In looking at small carry revolvers I was drawn to a S&W Model 351PD in .22 Winchester Magnum. In looking at the ballistics of various cartridges I was struck by the following energy values at the muzzle:
    .22 Winchester Magnum = 324 foot/pounds
    .380 Automatic = 189 foot/pounds
    .38 Special +P = 278 foot/pounds
    9mm Luger = 320 foot/pounds
    Does this mean that the .22WMR is a better defense load than the others listed? Does foot/pounds of energy equate to "stopping power"?
    I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you!
    Charlie
    ps: the values sited came from the 2006 Winchester Ammunition Catalog
     
  2. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    You must realize that short barrels will not give the same M.E. or M.V. as typical pistol, or rifle barrels will. The .22 Mag data is always shown for rifle length barrels. This doesn't mean the .22 Mag is a bad choice, as it can be devastating! Very low recoil allows a person to put a lot of shots on target and close together creating an awesome wound channel. Stopping power is usually higher with larger calibers, e.g 38 Special. These can be bought or loaded with many different types of "defense" bullets specifically designed to penetrate and expand inside an attacker. The choice depends a lot on the shooter's ability. I, for one, would not hesitate to use a .22 Mag with the right bullet for a defense weapon, as I would empty the gun into the attacker, and not just fire 1 shot hoping to stop him. One thing is for certain; you must do unto them BEFORE they do unto you!

    AndyH ;-)
     
  3. Golani

    Golani TS Member

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    Thanks for the replies!

    Andy, your points are very well taken, as are yours, Vern. However, I still have to ask, what is the correlation between foot/pounds of energy and "stopping power"?

    Thank you!!
     
  4. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    If you want to compare bullet stopping power:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849728/posts
     
  5. Golani

    Golani TS Member

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    Thanks, Ahab!!
     
  6. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    The subject of "stopping power" in a short barreled carry gun is and has been for many years, a highly controversial and much argued topic. For example, a .22 round which penetrates the brain is likely to instantly stop a bad guy. On the other hand, even several hits from a .45acp which do not penetrate vital areas may not "stop" a determined foe. In both cases, bullet placement is more key than caliber. That being said, since most people are not highly expert shots, especially under stress, the largest tcaliber than can be accurately controlled and shots placed, is the best choice for self defense. This, in turn, is also modified by having to carry the firearm in order for it to be of any use. Thus a large 1911, even if the carrier can handle and shoot it well, would probably not be easily concealed by most, nor comfortable to carry concealed for long periods of time. Conversely, a small .22 semi-auto, while lightweight and easily carried/concealed, is not a good choice for the average person for self defense. In most conditions, .380acp is generally considered the smallest practical self defense round, and pistols for this can be very small and easily carried (especially the new generation of Kel Tecs, Kahrs, Sigs, Taurus, and others in this caliber, some of which are smaller than most .22 pistols. Moving up in effectiveness are some of the quite small 9mm pistols, again produced by Kel Tec, Kahr, and others which are easily carried/concealed, but provide reasonable effectiveness. The drawback, of course, to smaller pistols in larger calibers, is that they take some practice and work to master the recoil due to light weight. Also an excellent choice, perhaps even better for the novice, is one of the very light weight .38 revolvers from Smith & Wesson, Taurus and others. These may be more reliable overall than semi-autos for the less experienced, require less maintenance, and yet provide reasonable effectiveness. They are available in very light weight models so carry/conceal easily. As for cartridges, in my opinion, +P ammo loses much of its increase in power in short barrels, but retains the muzzle blast and recoil. Thus it may be more of a drawback than a help. There are increasingly some very good defensive rounds in less than +P, both for .380, 9mm, and .38 special. Of special note is the new Critical Defense ammunition from Hornady (which I now use in my .380, 9mm, and .38 firearms) and so far, all reviews and tests are extremely promising (although real world shooting data is yet lacking at this point). There are others also, from Winchester, Speer, and others. In your case, I think a light weight .38 special revolver is the best bet. Just my opinion.

    Old Soldier
     
  7. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Keep in mind that Rimfire ammo has a high malfunction rate. Carrying Rimfire ammo can accelerate this problem.

    I would never use a Rimfire for self defense.....
     
  8. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that using rimfire magnum or any magnum in a short barrel pistol gets you nothing except a lot of muzzle blast, flash and noise.
    Also stopping power with a handgun is sort of "fantasy football" with guns. If you don't have a 12 gauge shotgun or a 30-06 rifle, you better hope that just seeing that you have a gun is all the stopping power you need.
     
  9. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Hydrostatic shock doesn't exist in normal carry type handgun rounds. Bullet placement is everything, pistol rounds will only hurt the stuff they hit. A 22 is not a good choice, ever hear of a police dept or military use a 22mag? Oh yeh I know the IDF hit squad or mafia hit men all use 22's, big diff they assassinate people not the same thing as self defense.

    Get her a good 38 snubby and the ammo Sarge recommends.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    S&W Model 36 revolver, 38 special, has a small grip which will fit her and she can practice with her 22 revolver which is basically the same gun. HMB
     
  11. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The bigger the hole that you make, the better your chances of stopping an aggressor. There are MANY variables at work, but I wouldn't choose a rimfire, unless it's all I have in my hand. I would say a lightweight .38 might be a good choice. Some of the "self defense" loads designed for short barrels look promising. I prefer something with a bit more power, but I've learned to control heavier recoil over many years of practice. If an auto is desired, the Kel-Tecs or even the new Ruger LCP might be a good choice in .380. Kel-Tec makes a P-32 in .32 Auto that is small and light in recoil. I would prefer that over the rimfire, but the .32 is still marginal at best, for self defense.
     
  12. Golani

    Golani TS Member

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    Thanks to all who responded. I learned a great deal from this exchange. A .38 Special S&W it is! Sarge and Old Soldier, Thank You!!
     
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