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O/T CAR-4 - AR-15 info

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ouch, Aug 13, 2012.

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  1. ouch

    ouch Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    280
    It's taken 50 years but I've got the AR bug. I don't know much about them but know several of you have good info.

    If I don't like it I will sell it. If it would ever be used in competition it would be in a 3 gun match or maybe DCM. 5.56 and .223 capable. Also want a .22Lr. dedicated top end.

    I have always liked Colt firearms, But know there are alot of others What's your advise for a $1500.00 budjet? Thanks,Richard
     
  2. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    765
    Best brand money can buy!!! and it leaves a few bucks in your pocket!!


    Ryan
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,251
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    CMMG makes several .22LR uppers in various configurations, ranging from M4 style to 20" A2 flat top rifle style.

    I have the 16" CMMG Sierra flat top M4 style. This is $399.95 from CMMG, or $384.95 from Midway. Neither includes a magazine, so be sure to order one. I bought mine from Midway to save money, but if you order from CMMG you can add (at extra cost) stainless steel bolt parts, last shot bolt hold open and/or a working forward assist. I ordered mine with a CMMG 26-round magazine, but it's a PITA to fill to capacity. Black Dog makes easier to load magazines that work just as well, if not better.


    [​IMG]


    Above is the CMMG Sierra upper. It uses a dedicated .22LR barrel, so it has .222" grooves, instead of .224". This increases accuracy.

    [​IMG]

    This was my Sierra upper when I first got it. I swapped out the larger diameter "Glacier Guard" handguard for a slimmer old CAR forend. This photo shows a suppressor mounted on it. The optic is an EOTech 552 holographic sight, which works well for 3-gun EXCEPT for nearsighted people.

    [​IMG]

    Here it is after I installed Magpul furniture in flat dark earth.

    Reliability has been excellent, cycling anything from CCI and Rem subsonics to Mini-Maqs. Accuracy has been decent as well. It's not quite as accurate as my Ruger 10-22T, but it's close.

    One caveat - These MUST be used with a GI trigger, and the hammer must not have a notch in it. My lower is a Del-Ton, which is a less expensive but good quality brand, but it had a notched hammer. I ordered a notchless hammer at the same time I ordered this upper. It takes less than 5 minutes to swap the hammer out.

    One nitpick... There is no sling swivel or provision for one on the Sierra upper. There are ways around this. Since I was going to install Magpul furniture the solution was to use their sling adaptor. I installed its YHM counterpart on the back of the lower receiver. These loops can be seen in the pic below. These use hook style sling attachment. This allows one of the popular one or two point slings to be used.

    [​IMG]

    There are alternatives to the CMMG .22LR upper. Spikes Tactical made an excellent .22 LR upper, but, alas, their high cost reduced sales and they quit making them. Tactical Solutions makes uppers as well in a lightweight fre float style and an M4 pattern.

    I really like my CMMG upper and it's a heckuva lotta fun to shoot. Also use it for varmint hunting.
     
  4. johnhefley

    johnhefley Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    214
    Rock River Arms.

    They've been running a "sale" on their "Operator Series" for about a year and a half. Good value. You'll get a pretty loaded gun (so to speak) for about $1,000.

    A few caveats:

    First, there's been a lot of buying pressure on the manufacturers. I've been waiting for a Rock River upper since last November. They may have plenty of stock on their standard guns, and even their Operators, but due to high demand they're not putting chromed bolt carrier groups in them at this time.

    Second, certain of the Rock River two-stage match triggers are not compatible with the .22lr conversion kits or uppers. I made quite a journey into the .22lr rabbit hole to do just what you suggest. In fact, I planned to put a CMMG Sierra upper on mine. (I then went down the path of buying a CMMG "whole gun" Sierra, which is a bit spendy. I changed my mind on that one. You can buy a lot of 5.56 ammo for the cost of a CMMG dedicated .22lr.)

    Bottom line: Rock River advises against the .22lr conversions and uppers because they might break your deluxe trigger group. Many shooters claim the trigger group with the rounded hammer should work fine with the .22lr setup. But Rock River would not confirm this. In the end, AR's are pretty user servicable. However, I declined to go with the .22lr conversion kit or upper so that I could avoid the hassle and expense of breaking my gun.

    Finally, you might want to consider the Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22. It's a purpose-built .22lr AR. They come in lots of colors, and will cost less than the CMMG purpose-built .22lr AR. The Smith and Wesson has a "polymer" upper, and is definitely not a mil-spec rifle. But who cares?

    Last thoughts: decide early on whether this rifle will have iron sights, or will use an optic. Also, think about the maximum distance you'll want to shoot it. This will help you decide which setup to buy, and what accessories you'll want. And if you're like me, you'll try them all until you realize that your lightweight carbine weighs a ton!

    ARs are great fun to shoot. And they're super easy to shoot well. Enjoy.
    jh
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    CMMG specifies GI trigger and round hammer. The GI trigger is for functionality. The cycling of the .22 bolt is dependant upon spring tension and geometry of the hammer and other components.

    I have not ever heard of any of these uppers breaking triggers. If there is a problem they simply won't function properly or at all. At least with a GI trigger and a rounded hammer. I would not worry about a gun that has a GI trigger and rounded hammer in it.

    For this reason, since Rock River feels their gun is too delicate for a dedicated .22 LR upper, you might scratch them off the list.

    I'm using a Del-Ton lower. They are a competently made lower at a good price. The hammer it came with was notched. I swapped in a $15 rounded hammer from either Bushmaster or DPMS via Miday. Worked fine. Del-Ton often has dealer deals not on their public website. Have your FFL register and log onto their website for dealer prices and specials, assuming this interests you. One caution about their uppers... chrome plated bores are an extra cost option, which may not be readily apparent if you casually peruse their website.

    Midway carries a large selection of 223 uppers from various manufacturers. They have high turnover and run out of stock a lot. But they do get them in batches and the prices are usually decent, and they often have sales. If you're on a budget, look at the DPMS Oracle uppers. Skip the DPMS Sporticals unless you do not want a forward assist or dust cover. A friend has a lightweight DPMS Oracle flat top 16" upper, and I was surprised at the accuracy. I'm tempted to get one with a heavier barrel for use as a suppressor host.
     
  6. Rich219

    Rich219 Active Member

    Joined:
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    RRA is FAR from the best brand. Get the Colt and don't look back.
     
  7. oz

    oz Active Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    1,817
    go to ar15.com for lots of info.
     
  8. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    I like my Bushmaster, has shot fine for me
     
  9. FIB

    FIB Member

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    Location:
    N. IL
    I'm not an AR expert but prior to buying my Bushmaster M4 I did alot of research and never found any complaints about Bushmaster.
     
  10. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    This a little dated, but probably isn't that far off. Personally I've had good luck with RockRiver stuff too. One thing is certain, don't get suckered into buying a "Carbon15".


    [​IMG]
     
  11. ouch

    ouch Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    Thank you all for the great info here, E-mails and PMs. I'll add the following: I'm not going to hunt with it. I want the .22 conversion for cheap practice and will probably shoot it more than the 5.56, So it needs to duplicate the centerfire upper.

    I also appreciate the offers of ones for sale and won't rule out anything, But it would need to be a good price and face to face transaction here in Ohio (South east ) Thanks again,Richard
     
  12. Sky Buster

    Sky Buster Sky Buster TS Supporters

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    Location:
    Minnesota
    According to the chart, Colt meets all mil-spec's. Smith & Wesson is
    second.
     
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