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o/t: "building" an ar-15

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by skeet_man, Nov 10, 2007.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    o/t:

    Looking at building an ar-15 rifle. I have found a complete upper and complete lower by dpms through brownells (p/n on upper is 231-000-020, lower is 231-000-180). I can get these parts @ a discount, so I can buy both for $681. Since both parts are "complete", will this just be a plug and play assembly (put one to the other, put the pin in, and start firing), or will additional work be necessary? DPMS is a pretty recognizable name, so they should be quality parts. Also the dpms website says if they assemble the parts theres a 21% federal excise tax, would I be liable for this if I assemble, or is this just b/c the mfg makes it into a "gun" rather than parts?
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    If you are buying a stripped parts kit, you will need a few tools to assemble the rifle. If you build it for yourself, no problem. If you get an FFL and start selling them,,,,, well, things change after 50 firearms. If you are not real familiar with the firearm, and have no tools to build it, you might consider letting them build it. BTW, the excise tax on firearms, furs, sport fishing equipment, tires, ammo, bows and arrows, ad nauseum, is considered a luxury tax. The tax on a long gun is 11% of the sale price.

    Also, the light at the end of the tunnel is NOT an oncoming train! ALL the Federal Excise Tax money collected is given to the Fish and Wildlife Service under the Dept' of the Interior. (Supposedly)
     
  3. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    coach- according to brownells, the upper is advertised as "fully assembled and ready for your choice of upper", and the lower is "ready to install, barreled receiver, complete w/ charging handle and hard chrome bolt carrier assy". Reading further it looks like the only thing i need in addition to these to is the bolt, which is available for another $49.73, bringing the total to 730.73 for all that it APPEARS i need, and it looks like to have them build a compariable gun would be over $900.

    This gun @ gunbroker looks like it'd be about what i'd end up with, and save around $100 in the process and have a brand new gun: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84500569

    I'm just wondering how much more there is, if everything is complete, than putting the bolt in the carrier, and attaching the upper to the lower, and going.
     
  4. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    I agree; it's so much easier to just buy a complete upper and drop it onto the lower and shoot. Otherwise, you're fiddling around with certain torque specs installing barrels, headspace checks ; go / no-go guages, etc.

    For the few dollars you MIGHT save buying parts piecemeal - you'll spend more than that in tools and gauges for proper assembly and/or cost of services for an AR-15 gunsmith.
     
  5. cmptrwz1

    cmptrwz1 TS Member

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    Your best deal is go to gunbroker.com and look up ar 15 and you will find a lot of listing with guns ready to go and all you would need to pay is shipping and ffl transfer fees to your ffl only other thing is go through a dealer and check his feed back and call him to make the deal to be safe you can save a lot of money also make sure that the gun is chamber in 5.56 nato and not just in 223 cal. This is so you can fire military ammo and stander 223 their is a difference as in chamber size in the stander 223 and the 5.56 nato even thouth are both the same calaber it has to do with chamber pressure you can fire both in the 5.56 nato and the 223 you are only suppose to shoot stander 223 factory ammo.
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    o/t:

    Quote: "BTW, the excise tax on firearms, furs, sport fishing equipment, tires, ammo, bows and arrows, ad nauseum, is considered a luxury tax. The tax on a long gun is 11% of the sale price."<br>
    <br>
    In fax, this is not a "luxury tax". It's the Pitman-Robertson Act of 1937, which taxed handguns at 10% and long guns and ammunition at 11%, with the proceeds going to fund wildlife. Sportsmen asked for this tax for wildlife habitat restoration and support.<br>
    <br>
    This is something ALL sportsmen should be aware of. Millions and millions of dollars, perhaps billions, have been collected under this act. A large percentage of the monies collected are returned to the states in the proportion it was collected, directed to the state fish and wildlife departments. There is no group - period - that has done more for wildlife than sportsmen.<br>
    <br>
    All sportsmen should also be aware that anti-hunters have been pushing to divert much of the funds raised for non-game species. While sportsmen have no objections to helping all wildlife and wildlife habitat, their goal is to cripple funding for game animals and fowl.<br>
    <br>
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Brian

    According to the "Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990", the tax is called "luxury excise tax". A "luxury tax" is put on "nonessential" items. The best that can be said about this new act is that it was enacted in haste and is an administrative nightmare. Those who fall under its authority had better know the law well.

    The good thing about this tax is that it is indeed the Pittman-Robertson Act, which after 1970, was amended to allow funding for public recreational shooting facilities, and after 2000, hunter education.

    For this year, $267 million was available to states for Wildlife Restoration and such. The National Shooting Sports Foundation estimates that through excise taxes and license fees, sportsmen and women contribute about $3.5 million each DAY to wildlife conservation

    Not only does it benefit firearm users and archery enthusiasts, the program benefits bird watchers, nature photographers, painters and sketchers, and other groups that do not hunt or shoot firearms. It also benefits songbirds, bald eagles, sea otters, prairie dogs, and other non-game species.

    Needless to say, as you wrote, anti gunners are not exactly thrilled with this successful, common sense legislation. If they realized that non hunters benefit as well, they MIGHT use a little brain matter. A novel idea for a liberal. LOL
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    o/t:

    BATF and TTB (a new entity) does not use the phrase "luxury tax" in their document. Given the date of the Omnibus bill you cite, it was probably something done when the IRS administered this tax, which ended in 1991 when it was transferred to BATF. I suppose the government can call it whatr they want, but a luxury tax it's not.<br>
    <br>
    This website explains the program in better detail, and notes 5.3 billion in taxes have been collected since 1937. The phrase "luxury tax" is not used there either.<br>
    <br>
    I won't use the term "luxury tax", because that was never the intention of this tax. It was, is, and (hopefully) always will be a tax to support wildlife.
     
  9. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    To add to the point raised by cmptrwz1 above, if you buy a Bushmaster 1:9" twist barrel - they are chambered for 5.56 NATO and you can also use commerical, .223 Remington in them all day long with no problem. Their chamber specs are meant to work with either. I've shot thousands of rounds of both real, 5.56mm NATO M-855 from the ammo cans in the bandoliers and countless brands and versions of US made and South African made .223 Rem with no problems and all are dime drilling accurate at 100 to 200 yards.

    The ONLY ammo I refuse to put in my CT legal, AR clones anymore is WOLF.

    I have had it short cycle in many of my rifles; it's dirty as hell. You can't expect a Russian state ammo contractor set up to make ammo for AKs to make good ammo for ARs. It just doesn't work out well.
     
  10. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    o/t:

    To add to the point raised by cmptrwz1 above, if you buy a Bushmaster 1:9" twist barrel - they are chambered for 5.56 NATO and you can also use commerical, .223 Remington in them all day long with no problem. Their chamber specs are meant to work with either. I've shot thousands of rounds of both real, 5.56mm NATO M-855 from the ammo cans in the bandoliers and countless brands and versions of US made and South African made .223 Rem with no problems and all are dime drilling accurate at 100 to 200 yards.

    The ONLY ammo I refuse to put in my CT legal, AR clones anymore is WOLF.

    I have had it short cycle in many of my rifles; it's dirty as hell. You can't expect a Russian state ammo contractor set up to make ammo for AKs to make good ammo for ARs. It just doesn't work out well.
     
  11. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    No arguing about what they call the taxes. If the wicked witch from the left gets the nod next year, this will be brought out more.

    As far as barrels and chambers, DO NOT GET A 223 CHAMBERING. You will have a rifle not set up for 5.56 military ammo. I prefer, as was said before, a heavy 20" fully chrome lined 1-9" 55.56m/m barrel. The 9" twist will accurately shoot most anything factory loaded. I also prefer the 20" barrel. You get the right windage and elevation numbers on the sights. The shorter the sight radius, the cruder the sight adjustments.

    The military is just now coming out with a correct sight in target for the "new" M-4. I had the opportunity to see them at a week long Law Enforcement Training Camp I attended in Zachary, La. last week.
     
  12. M-16

    M-16 TS Member

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    The uppers are complete ready to put on a lower 2 pins. May I sugguest a flat top over the grab handle top. If you want to mount a scope. Also if you like a fine trigger get the lower with it from the start, heavey barrel is a good choice. I've put a few million rounds down range at tax payers expence. One hell of a fun and good shooting weapon. Time to buy is NOW
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    What M-16 said. Get a flat top, and a GOOD trigger. If it is going to be a self loading varmint or precision rifle, you don't need the factory front post sight.

    The time to buy IS now. (sigh)
     
  14. nicky

    nicky Member

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    Skeet Man what everybody has written is valid. If you plan on shooting alot and shoot the cheaper ammo,ie, steel case watch for throat erosion in the barrel. You can purchase replacement barrels from Bushmaster, very good quality. Depending on how much shooting you do look into an armor kit from Bushmaster. It will have most all the tools you need to work on your AR. Enjoy and spray and play, Kevin
     
  15. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    You will not be able to get a complete lower receiver without going threw an FFL. You can get a complete upper but not a complete lower. Do yourself a favor and spend the little bit of money more and get a complete new Zumbo gun without all the hassles your probably going to have.
     
  16. M-16

    M-16 TS Member

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    Shooting Coach it's always time to buy a gun right!!
     
  17. Sam (ATA Noobie)

    Sam (ATA Noobie) Member

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    I had a Bushy w/ an A2 upper.

    The factory scope base was trashy at best. Even buying factory reloads I found it to get expensive if you enjoy a good bump-fire now and again.

    I was also displeased at the .223's performance. It could barely break the glass on the computer monitor. I switched back to my SKS for plinking.
     
  18. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear M-16

    It Is ALWAYS time to buy a quality firearm!
     
  19. jm1079

    jm1079 Well-Known Member

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    if you decide to just buy a whole unit, i have a Bushmaster with a 24 inch free floating barrel, match trigger that is guaranteed to shoot 1/4 inch MOA at a 100 yds. bought it to do long range varmint shooting but never had the chance nor will i ever have the chance to go. drop the xx from my email. joe
     
  20. AJ100

    AJ100 TS Member

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    No matter what company or model you pick. NOW IS THE TIME!!!

    I went thru this in 1990/1991, the $850.00 rifles went to $1300.00. I know there are a lot more of them out there now but it's a good excuse to buy another rifle.

    BTW, don't think that rifle you buy is going to be the end of it. It gets better the more you get into it. You thought us trapshooters were nuts. You ain't seen nothin yet.

    AJ100
     
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