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O/T A Sad Day for Motorcycle Racing

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ec90t, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Well they made an announcement last night during the Daytona Supercross event. The AMA has sold the promotional rights for all of its motorcycle racing to the idiots that run NASCAR! The AMA has officially neutered Motorcyle racing in the US. Now we'll get to look forward to identical motorcycles with whatever engine in them. The AMA needed to do something, but this wasn't it!

    ec90t
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    You're going to see more of this on all levels of professional sport. Sanctioning bodies that are struggling with the costs of promotion and organization will turn to dedicated promotional organizations like the Daytona Motorsports Group to take over the increasingly complicated and expensive job of promoting events. It frees up resources within the sanctioning body and widens exposure and appeal for their events. Good promotion and marketing keeps sponsers happy and that supports the sport.

    Morgan
     
  3. kelly andersen

    kelly andersen TS Member

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    AMA was killing all the racing anyway. Maybe the riders can make some money now.
     
  4. new loader

    new loader Member

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    I have been out of cycle sports for many years, but was surprised to learn recently of diesel technology applied to cycles. The military is using these for way offroad in Iraq & Afghanistan.
     
  5. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Kelly,

    I knew that things were getting bad here in the States. The France family sure has the dough to bring M/C racing back to where it was in the late '80's and early '90's. I just hope they have the conviction to not run it like NASCAR. I just hope they don't get there hands on drag racing (NHRA) as well.

    New Loader,

    The military has been converting KLR's for quite some time to run on diesel fuel. They did this so they didn't have to bring along different fuel just for the recon bikes.

    ec90t
     
  6. jeffprigge

    jeffprigge Active Member

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    Hey Eric , i get to go to Gainesville after 2 days at Southern Grand next week. I cant wait , i think i am more exited about going there instead of the shoot . Had enough snow ? Jeff
     
  7. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Jeff,

    That's awesome! All the cars and bikes should be flyin'. Have fun and enjoy the sun.

    I just missed the brunt of the storm. Had I lived an hour or so east of here it would have been another story.

    ec90t
     
  8. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Times to accept whatever is best. The NASCAR people put on a great show. Maybe some of us should take their lead and try to improve our sport. Unless you realise they have attempted to make changes to bring the field together.

    What the hell has our sport done?? Oh yeah put sanctions against the average shooter while supporting the great shooters. ???????? Maybe someone can give use a useful answer. - Jim
     
  9. trpshtr2001

    trpshtr2001 TS Member

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    I'm with Fred on this one. Those " idiots" that run Nascar must be doing something right. Why are all the socalled hotshots trying to get in to it. The same ones that made fun of them a few years ago are begging to get in. Maybe AMA should have taken some notes.
     
  10. kelly andersen

    kelly andersen TS Member

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    A friend of mine is a pro motocrosser, won the world supercross championship in 05 ( which doesnt mean much) He said his best season winnings was $12000 with fuel and travel bills aproaching 40+. Its a shame these guys follow the ama circuit and cant make any money. The poor privateers pray to make enough for gas to the next race.Do the math ama takes in $10 to 20 a head for 20 to 60,000 people, where is the money going??? Dont be to excited for the new group to take things over,the daytona motorsports group is horrible to deal with also.I quit covering daytona events because of all the hoops you have to jump thru to get a media credential.
     
  11. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    The AMA ruined flattrack racing years ago. It turned in to an all XL-750 event. I love those XL's, but it gets a little boring. Kind of like NASCAR. To few characters, and too many pretty boys.
     
  12. kelly andersen

    kelly andersen TS Member

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    Are you talking xr-750s ????
     
  13. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    Oops! Major brain fart. Yes, XR's. Graveyard shift syndrome.
     
  14. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    HOrnet, it's XR-750.

    Pay attention.

    Lots of guys on here know AMA history from the inside.

    WWF is not wrestling, and Nascar is not racing. They are both shows.

    I hope flat track don't get like Nascar. They were just getting in the right direction bringing other brands back in.

    If you haven't been to a Grand National Mile, you have missed the best Motorsports show in the country. Better than Nascar, Outlaws, Indy, the works.

    HM
     
  15. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Jim, '2001,

    Having grown up and lived in Central Indiana most of my life there are two sports people are fanatical about: College Basketball and Auto Racing.I don't know which one is favored.

    I have been watching races on TV and in person most all of my life. I enjoy the purest forms of the sport. NASCAR started to become bland in the early '90's. When Dale SR. passed on,it's became almost intollerable. He was the last driver that could say what was on his mind without the fear of the France family! Look real hard at a few of the bleachers, they aren't sell-outs!

    Now the manufacturers are trying to figure out what to do. They have to plaster the brand all over the car so everyone will know what it is supposed to be. They have soo much money tied up with it that they just can't leave. Used to be that they had the sponsers name and that was it. You could tell what they were driving just by looking at it.

    As far as all the top drivers wanting to come into NASCAR, it's because of the money. The pay is the best, but it's not the racing that they would prefer to do.

    ec90t
     
  16. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    I know it's XR-750, halfmile. As I explained earlier, I had a brain fade. That happens a lot when I work the graveyard shift. I've been a flat track fan for a long time. Your handle suggests that you are/ were a participant. Good for you. Racers are the best. I'm just a few years older than #9. (Springer, not Nixon). And I agree...things are looking better with other brands back in the sport, and nothing is cooler than the mile. Best show in racing, hands down.
     
  17. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    I sure wouldn't have wanted to have been in NASCAR"S shoes when Detroit quit putting V8's in the mid size cars that were on the track back in the day. Some of the Busch series teams actually ran 6 cyl. motors for a little while. It was way too expensive for the teams.



    I wouldn't see where a race would be very exciting watching 4 dr. Impalas or Tauruses with 3.4 litre 6 bangers in them!


    I will admit though, I absolutely cannot stand it when a driver stands there on Sun. and says, " Well, our Chevy Impala was pretty good today".


    Sorry buddy, we're not that stupid.
     
  18. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    MIA,

    I think you misread my statement about Dale SR. I was stating that he was the last driver that could express himself without the fear of the France family coming down. Other drivers tried to do it and they got penalized to death to make there point.

    I just hope they don't put a stranglehold on the motorcycle racers. The personality of these guys is what makes the sport so great.

    I've had enough PC'ness to choke to death several times over. Let people be themselves and it will sort itself out.

    ec90t
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I have what I think is a unique perspective on this, since as the chairman of the rules committee of the ATA I'm in the equivalent position to Jules Horky with the AMA in the 60's and 70's. As I wrote to him I don't know how many times, his failure to worry about where the money was coming from was going to be the end of flattracking and it was, all except for the Grand National Championship series which has limped on with barely enough riders to fill the heat races until this day. The money, as I pointed out to him, did not come from the riders, few had any at all, or the factories, who had plenty but gave it to just a few riders. It came from the guys (and gals) who owned and fielded the bikes. The cost of the rule changes which the Competition Committee instituted on an almost-yearly basis was not only breaking us financially, it was making us mad and once we got mad enough, we quit.

    The owners, I maintained to him, were the ones the rules should suit, not the riders or the factories or the fans or anyone else. He could keep his factories, riders, and fans as happy as he liked, but without the bikes there would be no racing. He assumed that we would just keep pouring time and money in - racing at any level requires huge amounts of both - no matter what because that's what we had always done. He should have considered whether we'd keep on once we got angry because we quit and, without bikes, the riders disappeared as well. And stayed gone.

    Recall Ascot Park in the 60's. Every Friday J. C. Agaganian could count on 140 novices, half as many "amateurs" and enough experts for four exciting heat races. Southern California was mobbed with racers and the AMA had 1200 licensed professionals.

    I was there too, both as a rider and "sponsor" which is what we called bike owners at the time. Over the years I lost a ton of money (and thousands and thousands of hours, literally) on

    1. Two "two-grand" sprints, made worthless by Yamaha twins

    2. A couple of TD-1C-based Yamahas, junked when the Competition Committee mandated 250 singles.

    3. A 360 single Yamaha which was legal for a while - making my 250's worthless- then suddenly not and making me wish I'd kept the 250's which I had basically given away. The 360 was unloaded for a few hundred dollars.

    4. Triumph 500's & Gold Stars were fine for a while but then the rules got changed to 750's so the smaller bikes went to the scrap-heap as well. Triumphs (and BSA's) stayed with the iron XR's kind of, but when H-D got the alloy ones sorted out, we all needed big-bore kits (750 cylinders and pistons, cams, headwork and all the rest) but it was like lighting a short fuse on a bomb - reliability disappeared unless you had the time, money, and free (they had to be if we were to keep this up) parts.

    5. So I got three XR's which needed a total rebuild before they were ever started since they would blow up at the first race for sure and maybe even in the garage; add trips from Minnesota to Axtell's and Mert's to say nothing of getting to the races all over the country as well, rule-changes which raised the $25 dollar price of Perellis to the $100 Goodyears, and I recall an annual total of close to $70,000 dollars one year racing for peanuts.

    Then we would go to the Astrodome where there would be a hundred bikes to slip past tech inspection and three mechanics/riders associated with each. For that mob the AMA supplied maybe five ill-tempered and uncooperative employees leading to an ordeal of at least three hours where we were treated like cattle, all the time aware that Mike Kidd was changing bikes for the main - "It's OK, he's on a factory Honda" - and we would be disqualified for anything at all if the officials knew the rules at all (few did), and the timing equipment didn't malfunction, which it did, almost every time for more than a decade.

    So the source of the real money keeping racing going, the sponsors, found something more fun to do. With nothing to twist the throttle on the number of licensed riders went, over a four-year period like this: 1200,900,600,300. Those hundreds in Southern California narrowed down, finally, to Joe Winston III (no relation.) Just one left out of hundreds!

    As I read about three-hole targets and 50-yard proposals I am haunted by the experience of the AMA. We have to keep the people coughing up all that money happy. They don't have to keep doing this; there's plenty of other things to spend money and time on. Make them mad an they will do something else; you can count on that.

    Whatever we do in rule changes, we have to know how people will like them. That's all that counts. If we get it wrong, trapshooting can disappear almost as quickly as flattrack did. No one in the stands in Gardena watching Sammy Tanner and Al Gunter and Neil Keen literally keep the crowd on their feet every Friday for years would have believed that in a decade it would be totally gone - the bikes, the riders, even the racetrack.

    I am unwilling to take the rash risks Jules Horkey did, changing rules without knowing what would happen, because I saw how quickly a thriving sport could be wiped out when you do it wrong. And that's why before we require three-hole targets we have to _know_ what's going to happen, and that means the advocates of the change are going to have to take their own chances on a small scale and do the demonstration Jerry suggests, so we can see what the _shooters'_ reaction is, before we jump in to perhaps become Flattracking II.

    Neil
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Neil for a very informative post. The Old guard at AMA headquarters was so desperate to keep H-D in the winner's circle they would just about do anything.

    If Honda and Yamaha had stayed in flat track, H-D would have been history.

    Bubba Shobert and Ricky Graham were riding circles around the factory H-D's.

    In the meantime, normal guys with a racing addiction were thrown to the wolves. This meant heat races at local venues.

    Sort of like winning a Lewis class.

    We are going to have some problems with shooting ( and racing) for a few years due to economic constraints. I hope we can deal with them without letting ego get in the way.

    On the personal level, many shooters I know are still shooting, and have no plans to quit. But they are all cutting back.

    Racers I know are not expanding their horizons like they should either. A trip to Springfield for the Pro-Am championships is going to cost a lot more. And the only way to win is to have lots of money to keep new equipment going.

    If the Nascar scheme takes over motorcycles only the very talented will have a chance to be in the show. That just isn't right.

    There should be a place for everybody.

    HM
     
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