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NY State, Lottery on Trap Banks, Opinions?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ron (vt), May 30, 2007.

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  1. ron (vt)

    ron (vt) Member

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    I hate to start this up, but I heard this last weekend that at the Empire Grand that the new lottery system for deciding which banks you shot on was a royal mess. A lot of shooters didn't know where they were supposed to shoot because nothing was put up to tell which banks #1 started on. They also, as I understand it, didn't use the big board to put which squad was up.
    Were any of you folks there, and if so, how did it go?? Thanks.
     
  2. RBur

    RBur TS Member

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    ron (VT)

    The only problem with the lottery system is training the shooters how it works. After that it is easy.

    Ron Burdick
     
  3. dedpair

    dedpair Active Member

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    I attended the shoot and found it less confusing than you would think. They had sheets all over the club and was mapped out where each squad would shoot. The banks stayed #'d the same and the squads rotated. The other problem, which I was told will no longer be, is having 25-40% more squads open than shooters to fill the spots. This more than anything led to confusion, the first event would start and being on squad 20-30 usually meant you were the first flight. While I know theres no perfect solution, I hope they work it out.

    O/T I thought the 3S software worked well, just needs some kind of actual break down for the lewis/purse's etc. Not just posting names and amounts won.

    Otherwise I had a great time as usual there, and weather finally gave them a break!!!!

    Jeff G
     
  4. porky

    porky TS Member

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    It may have been a lottery system, but the amount of special saved positions was ludicrious. Why have a lottery system if you cater to a special bunch. The lottery was just a front. THe good ole boys got their special spots. Don't you worry about that.
     
  5. DaveChic

    DaveChic TS Member

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    My name is Dave Cichelli, I am the Alternate Delegate for New York State. I was there every day when the number was drawn to start the lottery system for the banks every day. We had a different person draw the number every day. No squads were saved for a special bunch. I shot with Tim Herbstsommer, New York State Western Zone Director, and Brian Whalen, New York State Delegate, my boss. During the shoot we were on Bank 1, Bank 8, Bank 10, and others. There is no good ole boys club that I am aware of. If someone is saying that, that is NOT TRUE.

    We posted the numbers for the lottery everywhere we could. I must have personally talked to twenty different shooters and explained the lottery and showed them where they were going to shoot. If anyone needs to have the lottery system explained, all they have to do is stop into classification and we will explain it. I know that Keith Welch, our NYSATA President, did the same. I also know that Keith and his squad, including Doug Duncan, a NY Western Zone Director, shot all over the grounds and on many different banks.

    People sit back and throw things out just to steer the pot. That hurts shooting as a whole. We must worry about the Anti-Gun People instead of attacking our fellow shooters. The Anti-Gun people are the ones that we have to worry about.

    No system is perfect. We decided to do the lottery system at our State Meeting last September to try to make it as fair as possible to every shooter and also to speed up the shoot. Other states have the lottery, including Florida, and it works well. We are trying our best to make it fair. Anyone who is saying that we are playing games or doing favors for shooters are wrong. You can stop in and see me at the State Shoot and I will be happy to discuss it with you.

    I am a firm believer that is you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, Do Not Be Part Of The Problem. If you have an idea please let us know. We will listen. We want our to shoots to be the best they possibly can be.

    Dave Cichelli, New York State Altenate Delegate
     
  6. Cray

    Cray Member

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    DaveChic: I was not at the Empire Grand. Did you draw the number the night before, say at 4:00, like Florida did? We had no problem in Florida. Cray
     
  7. magoo

    magoo TS Member

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    Ron,

    There was no good ole boys club out at New York period. Shooters are going to have to get used to the shoot starting on time, good cashiering and as you know trapshooters don't like change. NYSATA is running the shoot now ()not the shooters) and they did a great job. Everything they do is for the shooters and for the new system it's only going to get better. Great job NYSATA see you at the State Shoot.

    Steve Bigras
     
  8. zinger

    zinger Member

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    I commend you for implementing the lottery bank system in NY...we can only hope that PA would someday do the same.
     
  9. DaveChic

    DaveChic TS Member

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    Cray,

    Yes the number was drawn the night before, at approximately 4:00 p.m.

    Dave Cichelli
     
  10. Cray

    Cray Member

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    Thanks Dave. Are you going to the Pa State shoot? Cray
     
  11. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Sorry Dave,
    I stand by what I say. Even the people who were squadding people had to admit that the squads and positions were saved. It is a well known fact. Sorry that you had to back into finding out this way. Squads never get started on time. I think that one day it was about 10 minutes late. Usually it was 30 to 40 minutes late starting. I don't know that problem of NYSATA in running an efficient shoot. I just know that myself and a lot of others are disgusted.Don't shoot the messenger.
     
  12. DaveChic

    DaveChic TS Member

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    Cray,

    Yes I will be at the PA State Shoot. I will be there from Thursday on.

    Git-ER-Done: Were we at the same shoot? We started on time every day.
    I am not trying to shoot the messenger. I am just stating the facts as I see them. I am willing and able to back up my facts, how about you?

    At least I am willing to tell everyone what my name is, who I am, and where I will be. How about you? If anyone wants to talk to me, I will be at classification during the New York State Shoot. I am willing to set down and discuss anything.

    Dave Cichelli, ATA Life Member #79-09037
    New York State Altenate Delegate
     
  13. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Dave, I won't make this a personal contest. I and a lot of others saw what they saw. It has happened for years and everyone has ignored it, so just keep ignoring it, but don't think that I'm going to try and dissuade you on here. Maybe at the State Shoot. Like I said, it is too bad that you had to learn about it on here.
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    How could they have saved banks ahead of time for "good ole boys" when they did not know which bank a certain squad would shoot on?
     
  15. DaveChic

    DaveChic TS Member

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    Git-ER-Done:

    I am not taking this discussion as a personal contest. You have your point of view and I have mine. So we agree to disagree. I will leave it at that.

    Dave Cichelli
     
  16. Rich V.

    Rich V. Member

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    Git-ER-Done... I did not shoot at the Empire Grand so my opinion is not first hand. But, I do know Dave and if he says that there were no "special saved positions", then there were no saved positions. Dave is a very honest, up front guy and good to his word.

    However... never shooting in the lottery system before, it does confuse me why there would be "light" squads. I was under the impression that one of the benefits to using that system was that it would fill all of the squads and get away from the 2-3 man rounds. If it doesn't then its not "fixing" one of the major issues in my opinion.

    Like I said, I was not there so I can not comment first hand.

    Rich VanAernum
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is the way it is done at many shoots. Yes, after the starting bank is announced, you can determine where a particular squad will shoot. This system works best at a shoot where just about all positions are presquadded. For walk-ups on the day of the shoot, you are supposed to be assigned to the first opening available, not have your choice. I am not sure how this was handled at the Empire Grand.

    This system does prevent "good ole boys" or anyone else from reserving "perceived" better banks ahead-of-time before anyone else can get a shot at them. At best, they can only pick what's still left over after the starting bank is announced.
     
  18. shotgunpeople

    shotgunpeople Active Member

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    I was a "walk up" for the Sunday Caps event and the squadder was very accomadating. I didn't know what bank was picked as #1 but the gal did ask if I had any particular "position" I would like. I told her anything would do, so she gave me the next available slot. I went to look at the "Big Board" to see what squad was "on deck" but all the numbers were down, and nothing was put up all day...This was a little unusual, and indeed there were short squads so I had to sit down at my bank for quite a spell so as not to miss my squad. I don't know the reason for not using the board for the convenience of the shooters, but it was missed by a lot of us...Please bring it's use back. Whether there are just a few shooters or lots, should make no difference....Dave in NY
     
  19. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: had to sit down at my bank for quite a spell so as not to miss my squad

    I was not at the shoot but heard the same. I assume it will be worked out...
     
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