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NSSF press release--ATA reply??

5K views 35 replies 28 participants last post by  RWT 
#1 ·
I just read a press release from the NSSF press conference at the S.H.O.T. Show.
The press release gave some interesting numbers concerning target shooting in the U.S.A. for all shooting disciplines.

For some time, I have been watching trapshooting numbers in two states: California and Texas because they are big states with relatively small numbers of ATA shooters. I believe both states have over 30 million residents. Both states have approximately 100 squad state shoots.

According to the NSSF, California had over 800,000 shotgun target shooters and Texas had over 774,000 shotgun target shooters in 2011. According to an ATA average book, each of these states have fewer than 2000 ACTIVE, ATA registered shooters. I am not endorsing or disputing these numbers--I am just stating what is in the NSSF report which can be seen on their website.

I would be interested in a comment from the ATA.

Bruce Bowen
Sturgis, SD
 
#6 ·
One thing that comes to mind is that both are the largest states in terms of square miles. Thus when any Texas or Cal ATA shooter wants to shoot in his yearly state ATA program (15 shoots at different clubs), a REAL LOT of travel time is involved which, may, cause ATA state shoots from attracting participants, especially in the state wide ATA program.

Here in my state, I can get to 15 ATA shoots in under one hour drive one way and in most cases 1/2 hour.
I suspect in CAL and TEX that is NOT the case. The logistics and associated costs probably are an issue.
I may be wrong in this but it stands to reason.

Art
 
#7 ·
"Here in my state, I can get to 15 ATA shoots in under one hour drive one way and in most cases 1/2 hour. I suspect in CAL and TEX that is NOT the case. The logistics and associated costs probably are an issue. I may be wrong in this but it stands to reason."

Amazing. Ohio? Illinois?

Sadly, some of us live in trap shooting deserts. It's just not a popular sport in some parts of the country.
 
#9 ·
I only mentioned Ca. and Tx because I have been interested in those two states. Please take a look at the press release on the NSSF website. The numbers for the other states are in much the same proportion. The really interesting thing is the extremely large amounts of monies that are spent by target shooters. Doesn't look like an economy issue to me. For example, in our small population state of South Dakota there was over $83 million dollars spent by target shooters (all shooting disciplines) in one year.

Bruce Bowen
Sturgis, SD
 
#12 ·
The number of shooters anywhere, in any state, might have something to do with the fact, that on an average, for just targets and ammo, at an ata shoot, an average cost for every shot taken is 61 cents. If any options or purses are played the cost goes up. This does not include any travel or meals etc. Now are we getting the real bang for our buck. The govt did it, you can have your guns sportsmen, but good luck being able to afford the ammo to shoot them. So now who has who.
 
#15 ·
Here is the link to the actual .pdf report, Please note that it is about 16 pages long and takes a bit of time to download;


Click HERE

I have to wonder just a bit about some of the numbers. I see that there are 53 clubs listed on the ATA state list for New York and 68 (or so) listed in the Pennsylvania list. I will grant you that there are clubs listed which have not had an ATA shoot for quite some time but I would think that the number of inactive clubs would fall into the same general ratio when comparing NY and PA. Also the number of ATA shoots on the ATA site shows a lot more activity in Pennsylvania than New York. Yet the NSSF shows NY as having about 20% greater economic impact for shotgun target shooting than what is listed for PA. Are NY prices that much higher that they can generate higher impact while having fewer clubs and fewer shoots than neighboring PA? Or is NY so much more heavily involved, compared to PA, in shotgun sports other than Trap shooting?
 
#16 ·
My guess would be the way the ATA and PITA treats new shooters. To shoot at an ATA or PITA event you have to, first join the association, be put in penalty class and yardage until you shoot X amount of registared targets. And, if I were lucky enough to find a couple of people who might be interested in shooting ATA or PITA, they could not shoot the whole program with me because of yardage. For a new person this is very intimidating. Not openly friendly to say the least. Having to join the association just to try to see if you like it turns many potential members away.

Sporting Clays on the other hand, is wide open. Anyone can shoot, just pay the same daily fees as everyone else and go shoot. Sporting Clays has the Hunter Class that all non-registered shoot in. And you can shoot with anyone, registered or not.

Look at the posatives of the open Hunter Class. Anyone can shoot. The association collects the daily and event fees but does not even try to track the scores (pure profit). The club throws more targets. More shooters shooting.

At the Sporting Clays events I've attended, there were as many Hunter Class shooters as registered shooters. If Sporting Clays were ran like the ATA or PITA there would be half as many shooters, meaning half as much money for the association, and half as many targets thrown for the club.

Maybe the ATA and PITA should wake up to the fact that they are not the only game in town. Open up the availability for people to shoot the events. I'm sure when people try the ATA or PITA events and see that they could of hit the lewis of added, they will be more tempted to join.

My 2 cents worth,

Tomas
 
#17 ·
In the DFW area of N. TX places to shoot registered ATA events is major skinny these days. None in the winter & sporatic in the warmer months. Used to be much easier and more places to shoot ATA in the immediate area.

Without entering any dogs in the fight, I'd also note that bird populations are nowhere near what they used to be and native birds [quail] are gone from many areas altogether. I always considered trap or 'DTL' to be an excellent game for shooting rising targets that best simulated a flushing bird behind a dog or dogs. Sadly, moving many birds behind good dogs is fast becoming yesteryear for too many. Does that also affect the ATA numbers? I dunno, but perhaps in some of the smaller towns that all used to throw trap targets. DFW is not so much a small town, but the numbers of places one may shoot ATA registered events has dwindled in any case, urban sprawl being the most likely causative factor.
 
#20 ·
Yes its just awful that PITA requires a person to join and pay dues if they want to be in a registered shoot. Oh wait a newcomer could join for free during the fall multiplex events. But golly that $20 per year really is what keeps people out of the registered target game.

Think starting a new guy in B class and 20 yards is a big penalty? Where would you start them? Hey thats great how about if we just pick our HC yardage based on what feels good that day. Your buddy can come join you at what ever yardage the two of you think is best. I kind of thought that was what practice shooting was for but evidently I was mistaken.

Now seriously what would the point be of shooting a game that had no rules in somekind of organization that had no structure?
 
#21 ·
Let's change the ATA rules to the sporties rules. Then we can petition that we change baseball rules to match football rules. Get the PGA to allow hackers to play in any tournament and hit from the back tees.

They are different sports quit trying to make it one big happy family. I don't know about the others but I am getting tired of hearing how the sporties have all the answers. They never tell you that it is more expensive to shoot their game. They never tell you that the small courses usually close within a couple of years because of low revenues. They don't tell you of the drive time except in a very few limited locations.

If you want to shoot at registered shoot go ahead and go to the practice trap and bang away.

I wish that they would go get their own site and leave the trapshooters to their own misery.

Don
 
#22 ·
RE: They never tell you that it is more expensive to shoot their game.

Those I talk to don't seem to care how expensive it is. I shoot all the disciplines and still can't get over the number of young couples and young (and older) business people shooting the sporting clays game. Disposable income they have....

-----------

I shoot all disciplines, but not a serious contender in any. Just out to have fun...

I shoot trap in three regions over the course of the year. Not many registered targets each year, but I bounce around and take in what I see.

In all three, registered ATA trap is in trouble. One region I see some hope, but afraid not enough people to replace those who drop out due to age. Threading water I guess you would call it.

The other two regions, I think they seen their hay day, unless present day SCTP and 4H shooters (not aware of any AIM shooters where I shoot) return to the game as adults, or get practice shooters to start shooting ATA, and I don't see that happening in any large numbers unless something changes.

Many clay shooting options from what was seen 25 years ago, when at one time your only options were skeet or trap.

I remember when a club opened the first sporting clays course in my home region. The next year are skeet shoot was down by two squads (at a minimum) as those shooters were now attending sporting clays shoots. We never did recover!

The feeder clubs are in trouble, the ones the big shoots need to fill the squads. The feeder clubs, the ones who send a squad to two to the bigger shoots. At some clubs there down to only a couple of shooters that will travel to the so called big shoots.

Bunker trap is expanding with what seems new bunkers every year, when a new club opens it's usually built around sporting clays (how many clubs had sporting clays 25 years ago?), 5-stand has become a standard offering at many clubs.

ATA trap has competition that was not seen 30 - 40 years ago and needs to figure out how to sell itself.

Where's the plan to entice those who shoot practice trap to shoot ATA, as the ship seems to be losing steam?
 
#24 ·
Unfortunate as it is, my old club back in NY changed over to a small Sporting Clays club (to start) back in the 1990's. They had been a Trap and Skeet club since 1938 on that same sight.

A lof of the shooters were taken in by the Sporting Clays shooting so we decided to install a small couse to try to retain these shooters.

Well this club went from a dying club who was on the verge of loosing everything, as ATA and Skeet shooting had dying attendence, to one of the Best Sporting Clays and 5 stand clubs in NY State. Canandaigua Sportsmen's Club)They have since invested a lot of money, but have gotten a lot of money in return.

There has been such a resurgance of members, they had to close the membership this year at just over 400. They still do allow non menbers to shoot for a minimal extra cost.

I am lucky being a life member. On visits up there in the summer months, I really have to say I enjoyed the Sporting Clays sport.

Sad but true, Sporting and 5 stand seem to be the way the money is going in this day and age. Regular blue collar workers, along side businessmen, Doctors and Lawers...It doesn't matter, that Sporting game seems to be where people prefer to spend their money. Walk around 42 acres, shooting with friends for over an hour, chit chatting along the way to each station...Get the picture why people like it so much ?

I am older now and like the pace of Trap. But that Sporting game is a nice change on occasion.

Dave in SC
 
#25 ·
Good conversation here! I looked at the report and found it to be very beleivable. A few days ago I emailed the NSSA/NSCA I asked them for there records of attendance to there world skeet championship and sporting clays.

Since we have a nice graph of the Grands attendance to date it will be nice to see a overlay of there events trends. This to me is enough to convince me where the people are going. We will see if they reply.
 
#26 ·
I started shooting skeet/trap in the late 60s. In 1971 I moved to Mechanicsburg PA and found Carlisle Fish and Game Association. Every Saturday in the 70s, 80s & 90s we would run 2 practice traps for trap, 2 skeet fields & at some point they added Sporting Clays. Most Saturdays we would have 30 - 50 trap shooters each shooting several rounds of trap. About 10 years ago I moved away from that area. Last winter I went back to Carlisle Fish & Game on a Saturday to look at a gun that was for sale. I was surprised to see that the parking areas were full. I went the small trap club house and found four or five trap shooters getting ready to shoot trap practice. All the action was at the BIG skeet/sporting club house. It's not about the cost of participation. The Sporting guys & the trap guys had similar guns & some of the sporting guys had both 12 ga & 20 ga guns. Many of the sporting guys also have fancy ATVs to haul them around the course. It's not about the cost to shoot. Carlisle Fish & Game appears to have more shooters than they ever had back in the day. The difference is they are not shooting TRAP. At CF&G it looks like trap is down 75%, skeet is the same and Sporting is up big time. I wonder if the sporting guys average 99% and basically shoot miss and out like we do at 16 yard trap. Do they average above 92% and need a score above 97 to win at a big shoot like we do in handicaps? Maybe Brad or Andy knows why trap shooting is DOWN. It's not the cost.
 
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