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NRA & slam fires!!!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by chatbrat, May 1, 2008.

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  1. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    A month ago there was a story of a shooter whose gun slamfired & is being prosecuted by BATF for having a machinegun. Does anyone know if the NRA has finally decided to defend this person. If they don't, anyone who shoots an auto-loader for doubles could be in the same boat. My Beretta has slamed on me a few times. Honestly, if the NRA doesn't come to this persons defense--I may not renew my membership.---Phil
     
  2. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    I put a link to the story above. Guy was a drill instructor in the National Guard.

    Bob
     
  3. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    This AR15 was slam firing due to a MALFUNCTION. When the malfunction occurred , the weapon was siezed by police . No attempt had been made to modify it Steve, and your attitude is a disgrace. Turn in your man card

    © 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

    A drill instructor in the National Guard has been convicted in a Wisconsin federal court of illegally transferring a machine gun after a rifle he loaned to a student malfunctioned, setting off three shots before jamming.

    The verdict of guilty on one count in the case against David Olofson was confirmed yesterday by the clerk's office in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

    That means now that anyone whose weapon malfunctions is subject to charges of having or handling a banned gun, according to an expert witness who reports that the particular problem is a well-known malfunction and was even the subject of a recall from the manufacturer.



    "If your semiautomatic rifle breaks or malfunctions you are now subject to prosecution. That is now a sad FACT. I guess we know now what Sen. Kennedy meant when he said he looked forward to working with [Acting Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director] Mike Sullivan on Gun control issues, after his committee approved him for full Senate vote," Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC, said in a blog.

    "To those in the sporting culture who have derided 'black guns' and so-called 'assault weapons'; Your double barreled shotgun is now next up to be seized and you could possibly be prosecuted if the ATF can get it to 'fire more than once,'" he wrote in a blog run by Red's Trading Post.


    Red Trading Post manager Ryan Horsley

    "Hey, but don't worry," Savage said. "The people testing it have no procedures in writing and the testing will be in secret. Also if you know of information that proves YOUR innocence, maybe the ATF won't claim that it's tax information at your trial and prevent YOUR judge from viewing it."

    He told an interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.

    "Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed," Savage said.

    A couple of police officers who also were at the ranged immediately approached him and started asking questions about the "automatic" fire, and he told them it was a borrowed weapon.

    "Mr. Olofson, being a responsible person, went down to the police station and said, 'I'm in the National Guard. I know what a machine gun looks like. That's not it,'" Savage said.

    But instead of having the issues resolve, Savage said, it got worse.

    He reported that because of the malfunction, the rifle was seized and sent to the Firearm Technology Branch, the testing arm of the federal agency.

    "The examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."

    He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."

    "FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.

    And then during the trial, the prosecution told the judge it would not provide some information defense lawyers felt would clear their client, Savage continued. That included the fact that the rifle's manufacturer, Olympic Arms, had been issued a recall notice for that very model in 1986 over an issue of guns inadvertently slipping into full automatic mode, if certain parts were worn or if certain ammunition was used.

    Ryan Horsley, who posts the Red's Trading Post blog, said the results were "very concerning."

    "Basically if your Ruger 10/22, Browning Citori Over and Under or Remington 11-87 malfunction and fire more than one round at a time; the ATF will now consider it a machine gun," he wrote.

    He told WND he's had personal experience with guns that malfunction and fire more than one bullet. Even double-barreled shotguns, if both shells would be released at once, now could be considered machine guns and illegal, he said.

    "This precedent is very dangerous," he said.

    Defense attorneys in the Olofson case couldn't be reached immediately to determine whether an appeal would be pursued, but Savage noted the arguments by assistant U.S. Attorney Greg Hannstad, who handled the prosecution.

    "Haanstad claimed the law does not exempt a malfunction. He claims that it states 'any weapon that shoots more than once without manual reloading, per function of the trigger is a machinegun.' To clarify when I was on the stand, I asked him, 'Are you saying if I take my Great Granddaddy's double barrel out and I pull one trigger and both barrels go off, it's a machinegun?' He went back to … 'any weapon that shoots…'" Savage said.

    On the Red's blog, commenters were incensed.

    "'Innocent until proven guilty' has been transformed by the AFT into 'guilty until framed,' said LibertyPlease.

    Horsley also told WND the 2008 edition of Firearms Law Deskbook quotes from a 1999 case in which the court concluded the law on automatic weapons "is not intended to trap the unwary innocent, and well intentioned citizen who possess an otherwise semi-automatic weapon that, by repeated use of the weapon, by the inevitable wear and tear of sporting activities, or by means of mere inattention, happenstance, or illfortune, fires more than semi-automatically."
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    The verdict of guilty on one count in the case against David Olofson was confirmed yesterday by the clerk's office in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
     
  4. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    Thanks Pat-I like to keep my body as bullet proof as possible, I've had several slam fires with an auto-loader & I was told it has happened with o/u in the past. Maybe , some might think this is a bit of over-kill--but until this case is resolved or the definition of a machine-gun is changed, we ought to think twice about shooting doubles---just in case an over zealous LEO-is near by and decides to make a case out of nothing but a malfunction---the malfunction could be very,very, very, expensive unless legal precedence is set by the NRA----Phil
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I suppose this also means a two triggered sideXside fits in that description, firing two shots with one pull on two triggers? That guy was railroaded, who's next? Hap
     
  6. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Damn, I'm bummed. Nobody gave me a man card.
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    While the NRA may have a dog in this fight, it should be the firearms manufacturers who have the lead interest. It would seem that the manufacturer would now have some significant civil liability for selling a defective weapon that could not only cause injury but could also subject a user to legal costs, loss of income and reputation, etc. by using their defective product. Further, if you extend the faulty logic in this case, the manufacturer actually sold a machine gun in the first place.

    It would also seem that the defendant had a lousy attorney. I don't know how you can get convicted of transfering a machine gun unless it could be proved that the gun was a machine gun when it was transferred. I would have asked the arresting LEOs if prior to their hearing automatic fire if they had heard normal semiautomatic fire. If so, the gun was not a machine until it deteriorated to automatic fire after some 120 rounds had been shot by the transferee.
     
  8. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    And the ATF wonders why they have the reputation of being "Jack-booted Thugs"!

    Buz
     
  9. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    I guess that a 391 that I used to own could have landed me in the same boat. I had the trigger worked on and it would double on a very consistant basis. This happend at a registered sporting event of all places. I sent the trigger back and got it all straightened out before I unloaded the gun. I'm glad it didn't happen in Wisconsin!

    ec90t
     
  10. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    Kolardude, you can keep your man card if you immediately bump fire a 30 round mag out of your AR15
     
  11. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

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    Motion for a new trial was entered on 05-01-2008 by the defendant based on the letter from Olympic Arms that was not turned over by the BATF to the defendant. The jury verdict of guilty was entered back in January 2008. Hopefully the motion for a new trial will granted.
     
  12. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    It would be something is the feds could be charged with prosecutorial misconduct for not turning over material evidence during discovery. If they were able to get get the prosecutor in North Carolina/Duke case sanctioned (and/or disbarred?!) maybe the same thing could happen here.

    Jay
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Jay, the way the federal laws are set, I'm betting those guys would be bullet proof for any wrong doings? That's just guessing on my part but this poor guy was railroaded big time and that's a real shame on America! Hap
     
  14. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

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    On May 13, 2008, David Olofson was sentenced to 30 months imprisonment; 2 years supervised release and 60 hours of community service for Knowingly transferring a machine gun. He was ordered to surrender for service of sentence as directed by the United States Probation Office. A Notice Of Appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals was filed on 05-18-2008. A sad day indeed.
     
  15. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    The ATF was notorius for hot laoding test ammo and shooting thousands of rounds in a row to get one gun to fire twice with one pull of the trigger and convict . If they want you they will get you! Jeff
     
  16. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Years ago I vended at alot of gun shows. There was a guy set up next to me a few times that sold AR-15 / M16 parts. He would sell you almost all the parts to convert one to F/A.According to him , many of the older SP-1 Colts had some but not all M16 parts from surplus. Back then there was a thing called a drop in auto sear. To be select fire it took five or six M16 parts as well as a bolt change and the auto sear. According to the instrutions he sold with the auto sear, that having some but not all M16 parts ( which would be illegal ) could cause an occasional multi fire to occur. The case above would not require the gun to be evaluated as there were LEO witnessess. Be aware that having in your possession most but not all M16 parts without possessing or owning a Ar15 is still considered enough to get 10 in Leavenworth.
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if the Winchester Model 100's that malfunctioned before the recall were given the same attention?

    Someone has an agenda.

    HM
     
  18. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    I wondered how long befoire some liberal BOZO got around to it being George Bush's FAULT! No matter who is in office it can happen. If some anti gun liberal get's in it will just makr it EASIER, because they will have their BLESSING.My guess is if you look at the JURIORS, they were all probably all liberal scum bags. This guy got railroaded. I am very soory for him and his family. It is truly a sad day in this country when something like this happens. Hopefully all invoved in doing it will get a VERY SLOW type of painful cancer die a horribly SLOW PAINFUL death!
     
  19. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    Followup thought, besides the NRA defending the shooter, if at one of our events a auto loader or an over/under doubles and an over zealous BATF is there is the shooter in a world of poop & will the ATA just say "IT is a failure to fire under Sec. D. para. 3" you're on your own-get a good lawyer---Phil
     
  20. TALLEND

    TALLEND Member

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    NOTICE--flincher100---------

    go get a new punch in your Stupid card,The

    House,and Senate,and the BATF,are controled by the Democrat Party

    Thank a VET for your freedom----Thank a teacher that you can read this--Thank God for both
     
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