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NRA issues gag order on Kagan

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by wireguy, Jun 28, 2010.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    From Red State Morning Briefing:

    Internal Senate emails confirmed by NRA Board Members are highlighting just how far the National Rifle Association has fallen.

    The organization recently collaborated with the left to obtain a carve out of the DISCLOSE Act, legislation designed to silence bloggers and outside interest groups like tea party activists. This was a first amendment issue and the NRA gladly took a position and campaigned for its members to take a position on the DISCLOSE Act.

    One of the NRA’s chief arguments was that it needed the carve out to be effective in its advocacy of Second Amendment issues. But here’s the problem: these internal Senate emails confirmed by NRA Board Members show that the National Rifle Association’s management team has explicitly and directly told the NRA’s board they are prohibited from testifying about second amendment issues during the Elena Kagan confirmation hearings.

    That’s right: the foremost gun rights lobby in the nation is prohibiting its board from testifying in the Elena Kagan confirmation hearings about the second amendment.

    The NRA did issue a statement on Friday after the internal Senate email began leaking out informing people of the gag order. The statement noted Kagan’s problematic record on guns, but that’s just smoke and mirrors. Don’t believe them when they say they are working with Senators to investigate her record. If they were really working with Senators, they would have accepted an invitation to testify on the Kagan nomination when they were invited. The gag order on board members is not limited to providing testimony, but it prohibits board members from coming out against Kagan in their individual capacity.

    If the NRA is really working with pro-guns Senators and Kagan is really hostile to Second Amendment rights, which she is, they will score her confirmation vote and actually make the score count this time, unlike they did on the confirmation of Sonya Sotomayor. With Sotomayor, they waited until several days after RedState began demanding a score and then, in effect, announced they’d score it and ignore it.

    First they collaborated with the left to get the DISCLOSE Act through the House, now they are blocking their own from speaking out against Elena Kagan. Is this the deal the NRA cut with the left? They get a carveout and shut up their board?
     
  2. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

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    Wireguy,

    With all due respect....you are out of your MIND!

    You must not cannibalize your own.....join the NRA, become a LIFE MEMBER....join the most effective pro-gun organization in the USA....

    Are you a MOLE for moveon.org trying to DIVIDE AND CONQUER?
     
  3. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    Bangalore,

    A few lessons in life...

    1. If you make a pact with the devil, you lose your shadow.

    2. If you seek protection, you empower the bully.

    3. If you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

    Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain how the NRA hasn't done all three.

    Thank you, Kit Thomas
     
  4. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    As I said on the other thread Bangalore, it must be sweet to go through life never thinking, never reasoning, never assessing, never applying logic and critical thinking skills to anything. How much easyer to give blind allegience, and never hold "your own" accountable.
    Answer a question for me: If we win this fight, if we win and the culture changes and gun ownership is no longer considered to be out of the mainstream, what are we going to need Wayne LaPierre for? Wayne once said, couragously and correctly, that the left needed a certain amount of gun violence to promote it's agenda. Perhaps it is equally true the NRA needs a certain amount of anti-gun extremism to justify those paychecks, those tuxedos, those shindigs, the donations, and the good life that goes with it. Perhaps, just perhaps, the NRA is more about the "fight" than about victory.
     
  5. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    The NRAs record is most certainly not "perfect" when it comes to fighting for every citizens right to keep and bear arms. Many times they have had to compromise over one issue or another, sometimes to the anger of the membership. But stop to consider where would we be now, if we had not had the NRA all these years in our fight to keep the 2nd amendment front and center as a political issue. Without the NRA I am very much afraid the right to keep and bear arms would now only be a footnote in our history. So yes, work within the organization to improve it wherever possible, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Jim R
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor, and NRA Gold Eagle.
     
  6. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    With all due regard, I'm having this dilemma myself, right now. I've been an NRA member for 41 years, I've given the extra measure and still support the ILA. Two years ago, when the Democrats and the media assaulted everything this country was built on, the NRA gave open support to 5 Democrats running in Ohio and Maine, to overturn Congress. They did it, and look at what we've gotten for the NRA's support and efforts. Disgusting is the only word for it.

    I've also been a Union member for 40 years, and I screamed bloody murder when my Union supported Clinton. A large number of us went hyper-active and succeeded in changing the by-laws so that any member could 'opt-out' their personal dues supporting any political candidate. A shallow victory at best, but it forced leadership to recognize that their personal interests weren't above the character of the membership. All organizations are at peril of morphing into self-serving monoliths. I believe that the NRA has done just that.

    I've written the NRA 2 detailed letters, one to La Pierre personally, and countless e-mails this year asking, pleading and threatening their support of ANY Democrat or 0's agenda. The NRA hasn't answered a single time. I have gotten a mailbox full of requests for cash and surveys asking for more cash.

    I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion as wireguy, his logic is very accurate - we've been sold out to the personal greed of the director and his court. The writing on the wall has moved to the sky, and I can't deny it any longer.

    Unless the NRA changes leadership and returns to conservative principles 2010 is my last year. I have already joined the Second Amendment Foundation, and I have been a member of Safari Club International for about 10 years, so I'll still support the sports and the Constitution. I just won't lend my dollars to Wayne and his cronies.

    The 'only, or best game in town theory' that I've heard are the very same that the UAW and SEIU promote so loudly. Unions are a good thing, right up to the time that the leadership becomes more important than the product that caused the Union to begin with.

    Sadly,
    Kip
     
  7. CharlesR1100

    CharlesR1100 TS Member

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    A reminder to all the NRA fundamentalist, "cold dead hands" types, the only things that do not change and progress are dead.

    The NRA is near room temperature as it is. You want to fight another losing issue? Demonstrate how weak the NRA really is?

    NRA's leadership knows a "good thing" is the latest Obama appointment. She is middle of the road, moderate and practical. Her confirmation is certain. From a "liberal" administration, you could not get better. Wake up.
     
  8. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    This entire Second Amendment and individual ownership debate would not exist if liberal idiots did not exist, particularly liberal idiots like Charles1100, or what ever handle he's signing on with today, and Rimfirejim.


    A person must be damn stupid to come on a shooting web site, yet vote for, prop up and support the very politicians that want to relieve law abiding citizens of their Second Amendment rights.


    Thanks for nothing, upchuck1100 and rimfingeridiot.



    The problem is much deeper and far more serious than hussein obozo, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the "Prince of the Fools" should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.

    The Republic can survive a hussein obozo, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president. Liberals are a disgrace.
     
  9. Herb Roach

    Herb Roach Member

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    If the prince of fools dies tomorrow, will the government of the United States by affected? Will the skunk smell less like a skunk? Will the leopard change it's spots? The government will go on doing exactly what it is doing now. It is up to the governed to believe that they have a choice, and show up and vote for the kind of government they want. Don't let someone else vote for you, and they always will as long as they are on the dole and the good fairy gives them everything they want.
     
  10. Rimfirejim

    Rimfirejim TS Member

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    Paladouche;still the same ole Lame statements .Pull your head out.Anybody that thinks Sarah Palin is the answer to this country is not playing with a full deck. The NRA is not for shooters anymore, it's for big business because it is a business.Advertising pills for your libido to full page bed set ads. Just what do we pay those 50 plus clowns involved in the magazine dept.and what are the wages of the Exec presidents, presidents ,vice presidents their staff's? I've been a Life Member since 1975 . Tha Larry Craig debaucle was the last straw.
     
  11. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line is where do you stand on the issues. If like Kip you take exception to a decision made by a Union board and stand up against it, you have done your job.

    The same holds true whether you are a Repulican trying to hold the party to its founding principles or an NRA member demanding accountability for Board decisions.

    We have a President who made his agenda clear during his campaign and now people are appalled at the results of his Presidency. Bottom line is the American majority voted for Obama and we are reaping the rewards.

    The Supreme Court barely upheld our Second Amendment rights by the narrow margin of 5 to 4. Think about it, for the lack of one vote your Constitutionally based Second Amendment could have basically been overruled by the Court.

    It's time to quit bellyacheing and get busy if this Country is going to return to some resemblence of what the Founding Fathers envisioned. Hammer your representatives, friends, neighbors and anyone who will listen with the need for reform. Vote in November, and when you go take someone with you who might otherwise not do so. Don't like the direction of the NRA, promote the idea of your club or organization collectively asking for accountability because individually you will not be heard.

    Progressives have quietly worked for years to contaminate our schools, government and society in general. If Conservatives want to reverse the course that has been set by the Liberal agenda, it is going to have to be a loud and aggresive outpouring of anger and a demand for Constitutional Originalism.

    Robert
     
  12. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    "Is that made up Dad? That sounds made up."

    Maybe, wireguy, what they meant was we're all supposed to gag when we see Kagan. I didn't even need an order from someone to do that.
     
  13. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

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    Yikes....orthodox lunacy from some quarters....perhaps you may want to entertain this concept: In order to preserve gun rights, you must have people in power with supportive views. "Supportive views" is a continuum...given certain political realities of the moment, intelligent people choose to "be in the moment" for political expediency.....

    Ranting and raving in a fit of orthodox alienation may make one feel as the "noble marginalized hero" but, in political terms one is more vulnerable to gun control.

    Vote for people WHO CAN GET ELECTED....be flexible and intelligent....people who adapt and maneuver the political jungle stay in power and hence, protect their interests....strident views are counterproductive and SUICIDAL to the pro-gun movement.....

    Of course, Moveon.org can also plant moles in this website to attack their archenemy: the NRA.......change the NRA from within...ARE YOU A MEMBER? DO YOU CONTRIBUTE MONEY TO PRO GUN CAUSES? TALK IS CHEAP!
     
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Rimfingeridiot wrote; "When Larry Craig was endorsed and elected as a Director that was the last straw."


    You are lying through your teeth and you know it, Rimfingeridiot. Craig was on the NRA board long before he was charged with the kind of things you people are known for.


    And who mentioned Palin?


    You know Rimfingeridiot, you have not posted one accurate post yet. Not one. Your latest is a classic example. You are one dishonest lying liberal cuss, Rimfingeridiot. Leave, anti-Second Amendment politician loving cuss..
    Leave..
     
  15. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    ....be flexible and intelligent....

    Does flexible and intelligent include blind alliegence? In addition to being an NRA member who hold NRA accountable, I am a republican who holds accountable George Bush and the anti-American Republican monsters in the last congress and administration.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
     
  16. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    The only thing worse than political apathy is political expediency.

    An anti-gun, presumably lesbian communist represents a threat to the second amendment, democracy, and heterosexual family values. WE GET TO CHOOSE. The NRA has proven its cowardice under fire. It has made its pact with the devil.

    This battle is ours. The NRA doesn't get to make us their "bitch." Neither does congress. This one is worth fighting for and I suggest that we fight.

    Thank you. Kit Thomas
     
  17. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    I don't about others, but I am sensing a lot of liberal troll activity here. For the first time in our history, the Supreme Court has now made two rulings directly on the 2nd Amendment (first, the Heller decision, which finally settles the individual right question vs a "militia" right) and now the Supreme Court has clearly said the 2nd Amendment protects against and applies to all levels of government. That these cases were finally heard by the Supreme Court and more importantly, decided in favor of gun ownership, owes greatly towards the efforts of many, but none have worked harder to promote this, spent money to support such cases, argued the cases in court, and thus contributed directly to our success than the NRA. These cases are, in fact, historic in their eventual scope. I said in another post that the NRA is not perfect. But in this thread (and others) I am seeing attempts to tear them down. This is much like the lame stream media to me; that is try to destroy a conservative organization or person who is successful in their message because of the danger they pose to the liberal agenda. The rants against the NRA in this thread and others look to me the same tactic. The NRA has contributed greatly to the success in these cases, so it must be destroyed or damaged before it can help achieve further successes. Beware the trolls who pretend to be "on your side" but who say they "have concerns". It is simply a trick to try to discourage us and turn us from those organizations that have been effective in fighting the liberal agenda.

    Jim R
     
  18. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Jim R,

    Were the spirited contributers to the Federalist and even the anti-Federalist Papers our country's first Trolls? Of course not! Your latest comments were a disservice, unwarranted, and unworthy of you.

    Bertrand Russell said, "men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth-- thought is merciless to privilege, and comfortable habit......." My sincere hope is that your are not one of these men.......

    The example Mr. Thomas gave in WS-1 is priceless, succinct and the most accurate warning as could be made, Bravo, Mr. Thomas.

    IMO,
    Kip
     
  19. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Kip

    Sorry, but your comments about the Federalist Papers, and those opposed, are completely irrelevant to the subject. The reference to Bertrand Russell is totally fallacious in the context of this thread. By the way, Russell was a dedicated Socialist who would have abhorred the Supreme Court decision. As Russell himself said "For my part, I am as convinced a Socialist as the most ardent Marxian" A very strange source to try to support your viewpoint.

    Reasonable discussion of the pros and cons of the NRA are fine. And if there are aspects that are wrong, we the membership have the obligation to change them. We do this through careful study and selection of directors, and so forth. Deliberate slamming of and denigration of the organization in your context, to the shooting community at large, while completely ignoring how that organization has been a prime mover in maintaining the 2nd Amendment, is, in my opinion, nothing more than what the mainstream media does to conservatives in general. And it suggests, to me, little more than another attempt to reduce the effectiveness of the NRA, something the libtards would certainly applaud.

    Jim R
     
  20. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    NRA leadership change is an almost impossible task.

    For those that were around back in the time of the "Cincinnati Revolt" 1977 may recall when Harlon Carter took a hard line stance about gun legislation fights and opposed the then existing leadership. Harlon was a staunch supporter of the NRA having served in many positions including President. Harlon also was the founder of the NRA/ILA. He felt that the NRA was turning into an organization that was sacrificing gun owners rights in an effort to promote a position of sportsman shooting club views.

    He led a "revolt" at the 1977 Cincinnati NRA convention that effectively turned the organization into one whose "mission statement" featured fighting hard for gun owners rights. This was at the time many in the NRA wanted to support the "Saturday Night Special" legislation proposed by Sen. Bayh (sp?)

    Eventually a similar "revolt" started to take place prior to the 1998 NRA convention in Philadelphia. Neal Knox was the "leader" but it was really more of a coalition that was working to "re-direct" the organization back to a hard position protecting and strengthening gun owner rights.

    I was at the 1998 meeting, and had even submitted a members motion (resolution) to recognize the Veterans of WW II D-Day invasion of Normandy. This was particularly appropriate because the meeting date was June 6, 1998, exactly 54 years after that fateful invasion.

    The meeting opened with a video of England destroying many, many guns. At least some of these guns had come from Americans who donated their privately owned guns to England to help repel the anticipated German invasion. This was needed because England's government had disarmed its citizens in the preceding years.

    That is what made the following NRA officers actions so disgusting to me and many others.

    When it came time for Mr. Knox to speak, he was basically ruled "out of order" and shut off. Then, and against the Robert's Rules of Order, Oliver North made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Since this was a Sine Die adjournment, it should have been ruled out of order as other business was still actively being conducted but the NRA President, Marion Hammer, accepted the motion and second from another member of their cadre and then adjourned the meeting Sine Die. I got hold hold of Gen. Joe Foss and told him about my motion and he hurried to the stage to try to get Marion's attention but their preconceived play was in motion and she adjourned the meeting.

    After the meeting I asked her why she did not even acknowledge the possible presence of veterans of the D-Day invasion who may have been in attendance. She outright lied and said no one submitted a motion to do so. I told her that I had handed, directly to the Secretary, such a motion, in writing, as required by the rules. She stormed off and never even replied. Later that night, at the members banquet, I heard that such a "motion" (which would carry no parliamentary weight at all). was entered. I did not attend the banquet since I now saw that the "powers" were not in the slightest concerned with the members views but only wanted to protect their position.

    Subsequently, the "insiders" on the Board changed the election rules and such to effectively prevent any member initiated change in NRA policy or procedures. By their actions, they made meaningful change almost impossible to attain.

    So, yes I can definitely see why many members would have reservations about a full endorsement of the actions or positions of NRA Officers and/or Board members. By their actions, they raised a very real concern if their actions were to benefit the members or just the existing organization's leadership.
     
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