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Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dave Berlet, Jul 27, 2010.

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  1. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    A few years back all of the information that is being circulated about our trapshooting organization and possible misdeeds and misuse of expense accounts would have been swept under the rug, with only the very inner circle ever finding out about these things.

    Now with the internet, email, and Trapshooters.com the vast majority of trapshooters will be aware that there are problems in our organization that need to be addressed and put into order. Whether or not there has been anything illegal done, it makes no difference our house needs to be put in order. If it needs to only be some bylaw changes fine. If it is much worse our board of directors (the delegates) need to take swift and decisive action or our sport that we all love may be in jeprody. Pleas contact you delegate and let them know your feelings.

    Somewhere around 1990 we the life members could not even find out what the salery was that was being paid to our executive director. We need our E.C. to be open and issue a financial statement that is complete, honest, and readable by all of our members.

    Dave Berlet
     
  2. motordoctor

    motordoctor Shoji Tabuchi in Branson

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    ohio
    good comment. motordoc
     
  3. trapshooteraa27aa

    trapshooteraa27aa Well-Known Member

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    I dont mind that the ATA information is posted on here but why isnt it in the Trap & Foeld issues? Thought that was why I pay for my subscription every year for all the so called valuble info as to where my diues go for and what the ATA is doing for our membership along with shoot info.
    Chris Teeters
     
  4. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    Another point that need to be addressed is in 1997 I filed a complaint with the ATA. It was a valid complaint asking only that a State Association do what they stated in their yearly program that they would do.

    I was stonewalled and the gentleman, ATA member, and attorney who I had write my complaint was even called sleazy and we were told in writing that the organzation would be better off without either of us. Right or wrong the membership need to be treated with respect and dignity.

    Dave Berlet
     
  5. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    There was a time when the Life Members got a financial statement, somehow that got eliminated and now we all know why ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    One potential life-saver for the EC and the ATA is the number of wealthy members who have little else to do in the plentiful free time in their lives but shoot trap and can come to the rescue with their checkbooks.

    Ed
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Once upon a time as Life Members. Should the organization ever be dissolved, all assets will be divided equally or some such words?? Not the exact wording but close enough. How would such a scenario pan out today, should there be any assets left? This was changed for the sake of,,,,,what? Expediency, of what? Hap
     
  8. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Hap:

    That scenario disappeared long ago. I believe the old ATA you are referring to still exits, but only for purposes of the final cleanup at Vandalia. Not many assets there to worry about. ATA is now a charity, and I'm sure you will find that under the applicable state nonprofit law, upon any liquidation the assets cannot be distributed to members. Generally they would have to be transferred to another charity.

    WPT:

    I'll agree w/ Mr Glatz's recommendation that the ATA's audited financial statements should be available online, but you have to realize they wouldn't necessarily have shed any light on this situation. Financial statements do not present all of the information posters on this site seem to think they do. IN reality though, if the concern is the total amount of travel expenses ATA incurs, that info has been available online to anyone for years.
     
  9. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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  10. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I sent registered letters to the ATA years befor Tom Acklin was President, and kept reminding him at shoots he attended I had not gotten a copy, and as a life member I was entitled to one.

    I finally got one, it is not a detaied report like I expected.

    Just listed salaries as a total, no breakdown.

    Travel expenses were not listed.

    Gun money to president not listed.

    What got me was cost of targets were equal to sale of targets, from that alone the ATA paid $24.70 per case of targets to target supplier.

    We all know it was less than $6.50 per case of 135 targets, It does not take an
    accountant to see this error.

    I then asked for a detailed statement from Mr. Acklin and was told that I was not entitled to one.

    I know that there is a detailed list that lists all monies spent to each official by name and amount.

    Travel expenses to each official.

    Right down to the amount of the gas and electric bill each month.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Longshot:

    The basic financial statements of an organization are in certain prescribed format and that is what you received. Financial statements do not present a detailed listings of transactions that you were looking for. The financial statements (sometimes) and the 990's (always)are really the only things most organizations make available to anyone outside management.

    As far as the targets issue you raise, I'll guess that they split shooting fees charged at the Grand into two portions, a fee and a sale price for targets. The target portion of the revenue was simply set to equal the target cost, with the balance being the shooting fee which appears elsewhere in the statement. I'll also guess that your analysis in arriving at that $24.70 case price is flawed. You'd have to provide details in order to check it.
     
  12. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    870 what do you think targets cost per case when Tom Acklin was president?

    My figures are more than they really cost, that is the cost today per case of 135.

    870- if you belived what you said then it served it's purpose (TO SNOW YOU).
    Hiding the Weenie, you got it right Doggai.!!!


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  13. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    LS:

    I believe everything I said because it is pretty obvious. The only opinion part really was my statement that I thought your analysis was flawed in arriving at a target cost of $24.70 per case. Based on experience with some of your earlier conclusions on this site and the general difficulty of determining a price per case based solely on info generally appearing in financial statements, I still say that my guess is pretty good.
     
  14. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    870 Why do so many people fear signing their name.

    On my ATA life membership certificate it states that "In the event of the liquidaation of this Corporation a distributrion of its Assets shall be made, the same to be divided equally, in specie, among the then living life members to the exclusion of the annual members. Life memberships are non assignable and non transferable and terminate automatically upon the death of the said life member."

    I understand this to say. Life members being onwers should be entitled to a complete itemized honest, and readable financial statement each year.

    My feelings are that my statement is correct.

    Dave Berlet
     
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