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novice advice please-forward hand

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bushmaster1313, May 31, 2009.

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  1. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what to do with my forward hand.

    My rear hand is pulling the grip and with it the butt into my shoulder

    Do I want my forward hand pushing forward, pulling back or just gripping with no forward or backward force?

    Thanks

    Lou
     
  2. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I'd be using that forehand for two purposes... just support the barrel(s), while sticking out the index finger and pointing toward the target.

    Jay
     
  3. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    I;m with spitter.



    tony
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Make believe your entire left arm is locked in a cast just to hold the guns weight only! No pulling or pushing with it either! Just a firm grip. Hap
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    You should not use your forward hand to guide the shot. Your whole upper body should guide the gun to the target.

    Guiding with your forward hand will cause you to "hand shoot" the target. That's a bad habit and will cost you targets.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I agree with Hap and Barry. Hap suggests a firm grip with the leading hand. I like a firm to extra firm grip. Few seem to realize how much recoil can be absorbed by our hands and arms.

    Barry mentioned "hand shooting". I have always called that problem "arm shooting". It is closely related to coming out of the gun and is a big problem for many of us.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Rick Barker

    "The further you hold your hand away from the reciever the slow you will swing your gun, where as the closer your hand is to the reciever, the faster you swing your gun."

    Rick with all due respect to you I just hope you didn't get this information from that book by Mr Messeldine. If you did I wouldn't put to much faith in what he has to say. Of course that is just my opinion.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bob, I agree.- Clearly the position of the hand on the forend will not effect the speed of gun movement if the shooter is restricting his movement to his shoulders and below. If he is not doing this, he is not breaking many targets.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Pat when I was learning to play this game.(I say play because it is a better description of what I do than shoot is)

    I was taught to stand in the mirror and with one hand on the gun learn to move the gun without taking my head off the stock. It worked out alright for me I learned that my left hand has nothing to do with swinging the gun or hitting the target for that matter.

    Pat hand position sure doesn't have any thing to do with swing speed.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'd respectfully disagree with Bob and Pat. I think having your forehand closer to the hinge does result in a faster gun movement, but, a less precise gun point.

    Jim Chapman
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I used to see a one armed guy shoot in Las Vegas, he shot pretty well too!

    Jim, if we'd make that guy a support for his gun, where would you think it would work best be on the forearm? Respectfully. Hap
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    That's more a question of necessity I'd imagine. That would probably be more a question of balance rather than speed... probably as far out on the forend as I could get...

    Jim
     
  13. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    "I was taught to stand in the mirror and with one hand on the gun learn to move the gun without taking my head off the stock. It worked out alright for me I learned that my left hand has nothing to do with swinging the gun or hitting the target for that matter."

    Bob:

    My next post was going to be: "What exercising are good for teaching the shooter to keep cheek welded to stock"

    Anyone have any other tips on this very fundamental point?

    Lou
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    BigM-Perazzi

    "I'd respectfully disagree with Bob and Pat. I think having your forehand closer to the hinge does result in a faster gun movement, but, a less precise gun point."

    Jim I am curious if you are taught that the body and the gun move as a unit when you swing from your foundation. How would moving your hand out or in make a change in speed. You mount the gun and when you swing it should be from your waste or lower depending on what you can teach yourself to do.

    When are mounted close your eyes and swing the gun now you don't need to look at a target ask yourself what is happening when I swing and analyze what you feel if you come up with the feeling that you are pivoting from the waste or hips or lower.

    Please explain to me how moving the forend hand closer or farther away will make the gun move faster than the pivot of your body? That sounds like a problem in physics.

    Rick Barker

    "If you don't think hand placement is important for speed, then the physics of leverage are a myth.

    Rick the only way that hand placement has any effect on swing speed is if you are arm shooting the gun. If you are arm shooting you shouldn't be and with your list of credentials you of all people should know that.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Bushmaster1313

    "My next post was going to be: "What exercising are good for teaching the shooter to keep cheek welded to stock"

    Lou I am no instructor but I will say if you think you are lifting your head make sure buy, beg, borrow, or steal a video camera and tripod video tape your practice if you wear a shooting cap or ball cap watch the bill of the hat if you are lifting your head it will show in the video.

    If you are it is like any other fundamental you must work on them one at a time. One other thing I should mention is gun fit is imperative if your gun doesn't fit properly and partially blocks your vision will lift your head no matter what you do. Just my opinions and all I can say is if you don't agree prove me wrong.

    BTW the statement about the mirror I shoot a Berretta unsingle the older version non-movable rib. and with the weight I have in the gun it weights over 10 pounds and I used to be able to mount that gun with a 2 bound brass weight that goes in the barrel(the full length of the barrel)and right my name in the mirror and not move my head off the stock. I also could break targets with it, shooting it that way no barrel weight of course. I worked out with that gun every day.

    Bob Lawless

    PS Lou your original question I just let it lay in my hand I don't apply any pressure.
     
  16. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    My hand just supports the gun more than anything else. My grip is very light, and I even hold the gun underneath the receiver. This helps restrict my movement to nothing but body, and my arms don't direct the gun at all. Works great for me, rarely ever see other people do it though.
    -Trappy
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Arm position can affect the gun balance but hot swing speed, assuming your upper body moves as a single unit. If you move your left arm (right handed person) further from your body and rotate your body only from the shoulders, your arm will move faster but the gun will not move faster. The end of the gun is at a fixed distance from your shoulder. For many years, it was believed that the gun should just lay in the left hand but this is changing. One well known instructor (Kay O.) recommends a firm to tight grip with both hands. I use a firm grip with both hands but it is not difficult to find a better example to follow other than me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Pat, I'm in agreement with you, Maybe I just feel that getting the body started in motion is easier with the arm close in, rather than far forward. I find that when I'm running past the target, moving my hand forward gives better control of the shot.. Does that sound better???

    A lot gets lost in interpretation....

    Regardless, we've all lost track of the topic of the thread.

    Jim
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Jim

    "I'd suggest you might have a discussion with a figure skater"

    Jim I will pass on the figure skating discussion I don't skate and they probably don't shoot and they certainly don't shoot on skates. you are comparing apple and oranges one means nothing to the other.

    Jim with all respect to your opinion I will be the last to tell you that you are incorrect. I did however ask you a question and you gave me figure skating as a comparison. So I will ask it again you said you believe in the "Tank Turret" concept yet you haven't explained how.

    "if you are taught that the body and the gun move as a unit when you swing from your foundation. How would moving your hand out or in make a change in speed?"

    I want to know how you can change swing speed within a set speed. I might also mention that if you are right handed your right hand controls the gun the left just supports it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    [Jim with all respect to your opinion I will be the last to tell you that you are incorrect. I did however ask you a question and you gave me figure skating as a comparison. So I will ask it again you said you believe in the "Tank Turret" concept yet you haven't explained how.

    "if you are taught that the body and the gun move as a unit when you swing from your foundation. How would moving your hand out or in make a change in speed?"

    I want to know how you can change swing speed within a set speed. I might also mention that if you are right handed your right hand controls the gun the left just supports it. ]

    Bob, damn, you hang on like used toilet paper, don't you!!

    Yes, I agree that the upper body should move as a unit. That being said, moving MY arm further out, does cause my body to be slower in response to the bird. You are assuming a set speed, I am not. As I stated before, I feel my body is slower moving when my arm is extended, and reacts quicker when my arm is not extended...No, I am not going to submit video evidence to the fact for you. Thankfully, I am left-handed, so please, don't mention it..

    Graciously, for the last time...

    Jim Chapman
     
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