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Nobelsport Primers ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 2244alamoet, May 13, 2009.

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  1. 2244alamoet

    2244alamoet Member

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    I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience with the Noblesport 209 primers? I see that Gamiels has them at a pretty good price. I e-mailed them toask about loading requirement(if any),and they e-mailed back stating that the noblesport primers are a little larger diameter and once used in my AA hulls,the primer hole will be too large for anything else.Has anybody had any experience with these primers?Thanks Elmer
     
  2. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Elmer,

    That is true about being able to use only Nobel primers once used in a hull. The angle of the primer wall is greater than others and I believe that is why they are enlarged. I have used several thousands and will continue to use them. Jackie B.
     
  3. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    As a replacement for unavailable Remington or Winchester 209's, I recently purchased some Noble Sport primers, and was aware of the oversize issue. I have a PW 800+ reloader. It seats the Noble Sports quite well in STS hulls that have been reloaded several times previously, but it does not like once-fired STS hulls and absolutely hates once-fired steel-based Gun Clubs...very hard to fully seat the primers. I will not purchase any more Noble Sports. I might want to try the new Fiocchi's as they are not metric...if I can find them.

    WNCRob
     
  4. psfive

    psfive Member

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    I have pushed thousands and thousands of them into Remington and Winchester hulls. And I will continue to do so. Performance wise I have had many more reloads short on powder than I have had with Nobel Sport primers that failed to lite the powder. I have no problem with them and will continue to seat them in my reloads. Why would I go back to a more expensive primer when they work just fine. Larger or not. I like them. Paul
     
  5. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    I have used only 5,000 of them but would not hesitate to buy more. I hope I can as I am in it to shoot more and every penny saved somewhere is used somewhere else.
     
  6. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I dont like them, too many cold weather blooppers and the larger diameter is a frickin aggravation. I had quite a few that dont go off on the first try, use the shell again and boom. I have 3300 left to use and never again
     
  7. okiefarmer

    okiefarmer Member

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    I have loaded 30,000 of them and just bought more. They are larger. I use them in the hulls that I am going to let hit the ground. I have put thousands through estates, top guns, and gun clubs. They load a little harder because of their larger diameter but I have had no issues of them seating.
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    We just ordered 150,000 of them (22 guys) I have used them before with no problems.
     
  9. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Have used 50+K of them and they are great. The size is not a problem as I load the cheddite type hull. They are great primers.

    TB
     
  10. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The best way to reduce or eliminate cold weather performance issues with the Nobel primer is to use a single base powder. Do a little research, but Solo 1000 and Solo 1250 are both single based powders.

    They are both fabulous powders. These two can do everything in the 12 ga from 3/4 oz trainer loads to Maximum Handicap Bombs.

    For the price, I am not likely to use domestic primers again. I like Rios, but for now, the Nobel is the one that can be bought.
     
  11. nords

    nords Member

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    The size issue with the primer is because it's not stepped to the final size. Switching to Fiocchi won't change that since their made the same way. I've loaded hulls for practice that have had Nobels in them with Fiocchis vic versa and are still tight. Hodgdon say's that Nobels are a replacement for a Win. so their is a lot more loading data then Fio. I've loaded 10k plus of both and like the Nobels better. FYI only primers I've had not fire (4) have been Win.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Shooting Coach

    I think you have it backwards. Single base powders are usually harder to ignite in cold temps than the double based powders are. Probably the main reason that Rio primers are considered hot. UEE loads single based powders in many of their loads and it has caused many off sounding loads in cold weather. Using a powder with a high Nitroglycerin conent usually eliminates many cold weather issues. Using the right primer and decent wads takes care of a lot more. Dupont produced 700-X and 800-X in a double base formulation for that reason as well.

    As far as Nobel SPort primers, I only use them in the hulls that are destined for the trash bin. I don't load UEE hulls or other cheddite type hulls with oversized primer pockets, so I don't need the larger diameter.
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Quack

    I got this info from a powder distributor (Western powder).

    Also, many years of shooting Solo 1000 with whatever types of primers were available (there was also a severe shortage during Desert Shield/Desert Storm) has given me a lot of confidence in the powder.

    Even when shooting in February in Tn, I never had a weak sounding shell with Solo 1000.

    IIRC, Promo is a double based powder. Its' dislike for mild primers and cold weather is well known.

    I had a site describing the use of low brisance primers with single based powders generating more uniform velocities, but in the middle of the night I cannot find it. :^o
     
  14. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    They work and having them use the same reloading data as a Win 209 makes it a no brainer. At every shoot I go to there are alot of once fired Rem gun club or game club hulls for free for the taking. Use them once agin with the Nobelsport primers & toss. Gone thru 20k. No problems.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Shooting Coach

    I would think that there are other factors that apply to cold weather performance as well. Promo is probably hindered more by it's physical structure rather than composition. Using a different primer (Federal or Winchester) with Promo has cured every one of my cold weather Promo issues. The unknown is what effects there are on pressures with a substantial rise in temperature and how much emphasis the powder company puts on that parameter. Promo and Red Dot were both dismal with the Fiocchi 616 primers. e3 is considered and designed to be one of the powders LEAST affected by temperature and it is not a single based powder. I'm sure a single base powder can be developed to be stable across a wide range of temperatures. I would think with the Double based powders, it would be easier or less costly to make them less sensitive to cold temperatures. If you have something definitive, I'd like to see it. I'm always willing to absorb knowledge, especially if it's correct or at least sounds good. :) Unlike you, I've had weak sounding loads with Solo 1000 in cold weather. The jury is out on the exact cause, but changing hulls, wads, and primers fixed the problem. It was with the old compression formed AA hulls, Claybuster CB0118-12 wads, Cheddite primers. I now test loads for cold weather performance by putting them in a freezer for a couple of days and then running them over a chrongraph. Some of the single base powders were lacking, but most of the double base powders did fine. It could be my choice of primers, powders, decent wads, or just dumb luck. I used to test my loads for cold weather performance by actually shooting them when there was money on the line. There is nothing that teaches a lesson better than finding out that the four flats of shells you brought with you for the shoot in 10 degree weather just don't do well when stored outside overnight in the back of the truck in sub zero temps.

    I know there are some single base powders made for the military that are supposed to me pretty stable across a wide temperature range, but I believe there are some very narrow design parameters regarding the applications. They were individually developed and tailored to a specific loading. Nothing like what a reloading trapshooter will put a powder through.
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the info, Quackshot. I doubt if Western Powders would tell me their product is lacking. I have used Solo 1000 for at least 25 years. Solo 1250 MUST be loaded to high velocity for proper performance.

    As far as my not having weak sounding loads, I load to the upper edge of the envelope. I do not use loads if they generate under 9000 psi with 24 gram and one ounce loads. I typically load 24 gr to 1350 fps and one ounce to 1250+ fps. I also load some 3/4 oz loads for new shooters, but these are around 1350 fps.

    For my one ounce loads, I generally use Eurotrash or Fed Game hulls. Remmy game hulls get my 21 and 24 gr loads. I do not care for the new AA hulls. I use Fed GM and Rio paper for HCP.

    22 gr Solo behind 21 or 24 grams does not give weak reports in cold weather. 21 gr behind one ounce is robust even in sub freezing weather.

    I only load 32 grams in front of three tablespoons of Unique or Solo 1250. No weak loads there! LOL

    Right now, in Dixie, it is buy Nobel primers, or shoot factory ammo. I have a little stash of Rio primers. They do very well in cold weather, but are not available right now.

    Word in the industry is, by the fall, components will be more available.
     
  17. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where eyeryone lives,but when I lived in Milwaukee, many moons ago I loaded solo 1000. I can assure you this is the WORST cold weather powder I have used to date. I live well north of Milwaukee now. I do not shoot in the winter anymore, but with my last few trips to the club with temps in the 40's and 50's I get a little off sound load once in a while in my fed hull, promo, fio primer load. Not enough to cost me any targets. With changing just the hull to STS I get no off sound loads with this combo. just FYI.

    GS
     
  18. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Some people have trouble with their reloads year round. Has to be a component problem, right?
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    midalake

    Changing to a different primer like the Winchester or Federal 209A took care of my cold weather problems with Promo. Loading it to a sufficient pressure also helped, but did not cure the Fiocchi primer issue. Getting rid of the Fiocchi primer did the trick. Fiocchi's might work well enough with some loads and powders, but they stopped being a good deal for me. They'll work fine in the warmer summer weather.

    JerryP

    Year round reload issues might not always be a component issue. It could be something else. If someone is having trouble in all weather, I'd look at setup and prodedure as well.

    Shooting Coach,

    There is a lot of information to digest about powder performance and design. There are some new tri-based powders that seem to have an advantage in being less affected by temperature. The list of active ingredients seems to add an ingredient that sounds similar to TNT. Makes you wonder just WHY we play with this stuff. :) I also believe that primer design can make a big difference as well. Some primers appear to produce more gas and some may produce more high temperature particulates. It's hard to know unless you have some proprietary information, but I have found some that work well with most powders by careful experimentation and testing. One day I'll hope to befriend a couple of engineers that work with this stuff and pick their brains.
     
  20. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The triple based powders seem to be the fix, but they are $$$$$$$$$

    Back in the good old days, we could afford the good primers. Fed 209A seems to light everything in all weather. Now, they are $$ when you can find them.

    I have eliminated cold weather issues by loading to the upper end of the spectrum.
     
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