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no wad seating pressure

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dblell, Oct 20, 2011.

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  1. dblell

    dblell Member

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    what is the effect of loading a shell with no wad pressure. In other words the wad is not fully seated on the powder charge.
    DBLELL
     
  2. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    No wad pressure is needed with plastic wads. Load the powder, wad and shot so the shot level is about 3/8" down from the mouth of the hull. Crimp the hull and let the shot move the wad down.

    Mike K
     
  3. HC_John

    HC_John TS Member

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    I have my reloader set to push little to no pressure on the wad. The pressure is applied when I crimp, it leaves a nice looking crimp. As for a change in velocity I don't know, nor do I have ways of testing. I would think that a slight increase in chamber pressure would occur, but again I don't know for sure. I'm sure someone on here has run a few test.

    John MI
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    As Mike said, the crimping operation will usually determine the final wad pressure. You do want the wad sitting on the powder in the finished shell. I adjust the wad seating dpeth on my loader such that there is just a little spring compression at the end of the wad seating operation just because that is a good indicator that the wad went in the case with no issues.
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I can hear the "Pffffts" now. Best have no empty space in the powder are if yo shoot with us in the winter.
     
  6. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    There is no wad pressure before the crimp. Go ahead and apply all the wad pressure you want upon insertion, but when the ram is raised, that pressure disappears to effectively 0.
     
  7. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    I set the Mec press gauge to move a very tiny amount,like 1 to 5 pounds if that,then I forget about it and just load.
     
  8. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    I too leave the wad ram on my MEC 650 LOW AS POSSIBLE but I do make sure that there is movement on the spring and the pressure gauge to insure that there is enough pressure to seat the wad firmly on to the top of the powder. Can't see leaving a gap between the powder and the wad and expecting my shot and final crimp to complete the wad seating process. That just seems a lil too trustworthly. And I trust nothing I can't see!!! Neither should any shooter/loader!!!
     
  9. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    I JerryP's answer. And I believe it.

    If I use a bulky powder like Greendot or PB, in a STS hull with a Win AA wad, and 1 1/8 oz., I need to crush the wad a bit so I can get a good crimp. But like Jerry say's: once you raise the handle, the pressure drops to "0". All you end up with is a wad with a shorter "cushion" section.

    If you look at a factory Nitro shell with a strong light behind it, (or a factory 3dr. 1 1/8 AA) you will see that the wad is somewhat crushed. Believe it or not.
     
  10. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    MIA is right.
    No wad pressure = fine.
    Air gap = "Pffffft!", "Thomp!", "Ka-thupp!" (Anything but "Bang").
    Mike
     
  11. Beni

    Beni Member

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    Ive loaded thousands of shells and shoot in some of the crappiest weather western new york has to offer never had apffftt or a kisssttt.. and never ever put any wad pressure on my wad !!!!!!!!!!! beni
     
  12. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between wad pressure and air space between the powder and the wad. I've experimented with both. Here is how my experiments turned out. With the air out and still with no wad pressure the shell goes bang. If the wad is not setting on the powder and there is air space between the two, the containment area is to large to build peak pressure and your shells will not be consistent and you will have a lot of bloopers. I've found it really doesn't seem to matter if you use the wad ram or the crimp but the air has to be gone.

    The composition and burning rate of the powders also play a part in this. The faster burning rated powders do a better job than the slower rated powders.


    Ajax
     
  13. Beni

    Beni Member

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    Im sort of confused, I dont remember seeing anything posted in a modern load book as to wad seating pressure for trap loads or forlight hunting loads. Years ago when we could use lead for waterfowl we would load magnum loads and then wad pressure would come into effect,thats back when Don Zutz was writing and experimenting with loads. Still never had one go pfffffit before beni
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    You get all the wad pressure needed at the final crimp station.
     
  15. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    I would think it would affect consistancy in the load. Let me ask this. Why is there a guage on the reloader for the wad pressure? I can't imagine it is there because of looks. My wad pressure is set at 30. That way I know the powder is compressed, and there will be cosistant burn. I have never had a blooper since I started reloading more than 20 years ago. The best thing about this thread is you can do what ever you feel works for you. This thread is getting to that magic 15 responses, when the arguing breaks out. Jon
     
  16. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    I agree with you, stl flyn

    "to each his own"!!!!
     
  17. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    With 19.2 of International Clays, and a AAwad, AA hull, I need 40-45 pounds of pressure to compact the powder with the wad, or my crimp is poor. Not so with a STS hull and a F-8 wad.

    Winchester really screwed up with their new hull design.
     
  18. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    I have exdperienced bloopers in the dead of winter but do not attribute it to downward wad ram pressure, but instead to a cold wad that does not seal well on ignition. I use plenty of wad pressure on the Hornady 360.
    But then who knows? This year I will keep shells warm prior to going to the line.
    dju
     
  19. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    New-style AAs are a breed all to their own. You apparently HAVE to use wad pressure with them to insure that the wad's over-powder cup doesn't catch on the separate basewad.

    But for the rest, I agree with the "no pressure" group. I haven't seen my MEC's wad pressure indicator move in years and never get bloopers. I use a very dense, slow-burning powder (PB) with the mildest 209s out there (Remingtons), winter and summer. A light behind my loaded shells shows about a quarter-inch of space between the powder and wad.

    Consider the handgun cartridges you shoot. If you handload, you know there is a significant air gap between the powder and the base of the bullet. And that's if you hold the barrel vertically - if you hold it horizontally, which is the usual gun orientation when shooting, the powder could easily be all positioned below the primer flash hole. I load .44 Magnum target loads with 5.0 grains of Titegroup, a very dense powder, under a 240-grain lead semi-wadcutter. That powder charge amounts to less than a quarter-inch of powder in the bottom of the case, so probably 75% of the interior of the case is empty. When you consider the diameter of the .44 Magnum case, none of the powder would be covering the flash hole when I shoot. I'll be shooting some of those loads tomorrow morning and since none of the last couple of thousand have gone "pfffft," tomorrow's probably won't either.

    Simply put, the powder cannot escape the primer's flame. If you doubt that, ask a powder company. Those "pfffft" shells aren't a result of no wad pressure. Something else is happening - the powder is too cold or the wads don't seal well (tapered hull wads used in straight-walled hulls, for example). But it's not because of an air gap in the shell.

    Ed
     
  20. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    What Ed said.
     
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