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No Smoke only breaks

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by hmb, Mar 1, 2010.

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  1. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think you will get better breaks if the gun shootes high? If you get a center hit with a tight choke you will smoke the target. What choke do you have in the gun? What type of ammo are you using? There is more to the equation than just POI.HMB
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Frank- I also want to smoke targets consistently but have trouble doing it. If you get better breaks with your gun shooting flat, don't raise the POI.

    But, your question-- Eight inches high at 35 yards is not very high. That is just over 2 inches high at 13 yards. You should be able to get a higher POI by just raising the comb. One easy way to see if you really need a higher POI is to try and shoot a little quicker and over the top of the target. If you try to shoot over the target but start smoking birds, that should tell you something useful.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Put a full choke in the gun and pattern it to make sure it is giving a full choke pattern. Then shoot and learn to point the gun.

    POI will depend on your style, speed and hold points. Nothing "magic" about it. You need to find what works for you.

    A full choke will get you there quicker as the core is "hotter" so you know when you are centering birds. Pattern diameter is not dramatically affected, but fringe hits will be "weaker" with a full choke.

    Don Verna
     
  4. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Tell your club to stop throwing Champions. Try MidWest or White Flyers.

    Here's another test. If you club throws doubles, what are the first bird breaks like? If they aren't getting smoked, you better look in the traphouse for your solution.
     
  5. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    If very few shooters are smoking birds in your area, I'd be curious what birds are being thrown. Is someone "saving money" by using Wal-Mart birds....Bob Dodd
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The fastest way to confirm where the gun is shooting is to shoot at straight away targets from post 3. Raise the comb until you have indications of shooting high then drop it down until you know you are shooting under the target. Now split the difference in the adjustment and try that. Shooting at paper with a static gun won't tell you what you want to know.

    As far as smoking the bird, you should be able to do that from the 16 fairly regularly but you might need a different choke. My 'smoke tube' happens to be marked IMOD and it is likely your best tube will turn out to be something other than the XFULL. You need to do some testing to confirm that.
     
  7. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Think about this, You break or chip 100 targets in the Grand American for $100,000 and the other guys all smoke 99 of them in the shoot off ... Then make out the deposit slip and walk away ... It has to be the targets or you would smoke one once in awhile even if it was by accident ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  8. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    The object to trap shooting is to break the clay target. "Smoke" does not make a bigger or better X on the score sheet. While you can choke for, or work up a load which creates a denser pattern "core" to get more "smoke" when you have perfectly centered the target, it will be at the cost of pellets on the pattern edges, pellets which might otherwise have broken a target where you are not perfectly "on" I would rather have the better score, even consisting of pieces, than have lower scores, even though those breaks were "smoked" JMHO

    Jim R
     
  9. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Lawry targets do not have a good reputation. Likely worse than Federal.

    Go to a club that is throwing White Flyers.

    We made a huge mistake and started throwing Federals to save $1/case. Scores dropped significantly.

    Don Verna
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Chipped targets do score the same as smoked targets. Guys with the really high averages smoke them. Correlation or coincidence..... you be the judge.
     
  11. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    ridg300, I don't think the answer to your question can be given with the sparse info provided, and be effective. Alot of variables but keep inmind that good, consistant shooters will smoke a majority of targets. That is how they maintain they average in that even they cannot point ever target perfectly but do accomplish this on the majority so as to be close enough they can still score on an ill pointed bird.

    At the 16 yd line, choke is not near as relevant to smoke as it is stepping back. A solid modified performing choke should be able to consistantly smoke properly pointed targets. Now there can be quite a host of issues not allowing for your personal smoking. I doubt that its your choke although an extra full (excess of .040) can be a pathetic mess if viewed on paper. Given barrels although designated by a certain degree of constriction will not throw proper patterns regardless of brand.these need trashed and the nightmare ended!

    But I wonder without knowing as others have touched on, targets. Storage can have a huge impact on how well targets "smoke". Brand also matters as some are more suseptable than others. Air temps on given days that these targets are being shot. For a 16 yarder 7.5 or 8's shouldn't matter for realistic execution.

    Now Iam not understanding why you say that your gun is not shooting high enough POI but yet you state you do better with lower. Please explain as it seems Iam missing your point. Hopefully your not just caught up in the hype about shooting 15 to 20 inch patterns as so many are. Remember, POI is relative to you and you only. What everyone else does is irrelevant. Does your gun shoot straight?

    One final comment. A good clinic may work wonders for you where issues can be professionally evaluated.
     
  12. Tony Fortino

    Tony Fortino Member

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    Just shoot closer to them
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you've developed the habit of yanking down on the forehand which will stop the vertical move? Ever watch guys have a misfire and yank the gun down when the pull or release the trigger? Just stopping that vertical move diminishes a higher POI also! The backwoods guy is spot on, get some help before you start changing things!

    Hap
     
  14. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    I never seen a shooter chip his way to HOA at a big shoot.
     
  15. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    What is your idea of a "Smoked" target? Is it a target that explodes into hundreds of pieces? Or ones that actually turn to smoke? There are targets made for special competitions, and used for TV, demonstrations, teaching DVDs and videos called FLASH targets (they will turn to smoke). Those targets are what you will see on film and exhibitions. You will never get smoke from a pitch target. With a good hit, hundreds of pieces and dust, but not smoke like on DVDs. Wayne
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Lawry's do not "smoke" black like White Flyers, they are more of a white/orange. If they're cold or wet, forget it. If you have an adjustable comb, throw 1-2 shims in and see what happens. Pay no attention to the gap in the beads.

    After that follow the advice of Backwoods, but make sure your gun shoots dead on right and left.
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Frank, you have a fixed extra full choke. Have you ever checked it for actual constriction? One-in-50 smoke with a load like yours sounds way low to me, regardless of POI problems. You are sure no one "improved" it, aren't you?

    By the way, the fact that "guys around here" say their guns shoot 15 inches high neither means that they do, or even that they have any idea where their guns shoot. Nor does it have much to do with where your gun should shoot, and if it's tough to up and easy to go down and you are getting bad hits, it's at least worth trying "down" if only to be sure you are on the right track trying to go the other way.

    Neil
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Frank- Good advice from Neil. I agree with you that smoke is important. You need to know if you shot the target well (smoke) or if you were a little off and just broke the target. When we are a little off on a few targets we better do something to get back in the groove or a lost target will appear soon.

    Also, with your PFS, it should not be difficult to get the gun to shoot 15 inches high. I have my PFS set to shoot very high and still have a lot of space left in the grooves of the cheek piece. I did have to put in extra long screws in the two holes on top of the comb. Vern gave me some very long screws and I added more to them with a plastic blind bushing.

    Your load seems fine. I don't know about the targets you are shooting.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. jrb100

    jrb100 Member

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    I Have shot all winter at various clubs in mass.My club was shooting Lawry targets up until last week and we tapped into the the shipment of white flyers(both bios)I see lots of smoked targets no matter which target is thrown.I shoot 8.5's with full choke at 16's and the targets smoke winter or summer.Handicap is different,but people are funny about blaming Lawry targets for mispointing there shotgun.

    joe
     
  20. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    FRANK; You mentioned STACKING THE BEADS. Forget the bead stacking junk and go ahead and shoot the gun with some rib showing between beads if you can get the gun to adjust high enough.It's really almost impossible to make a gun shoot really high and still have stacked beads. Shoot the gun with some rib showing and quit worrying about it. IF- you still HAVE to stack the beads;once you get the gun shooting high enough replace the mid bead with a taller one or move it's location so it still looks stacked.That damn bead stacking crap and bird/bead relationship started by Frank Little has been the bane of many a good trapshooter.
     
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