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No more lead in ammo - petition filed with EPA

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by wireguy, Aug 4, 2010.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    FROM: The Shooting Wire - note the inclusion of shooting ranges

    First Shot In Lead Battle Fired


    The old sales saw says "if someone tells you it's not about the money, it's about the money." With that in mind, I sat in on a teleconference yesterday with the American Bird Conservancy and the Center for Biological Diversity to learn more about a formal petition filed yesterday with the Environmental Protection Agency requesting a ban on the use of lead in hunting ammunition and fishing tackle.

    "Today's petition is the most significant move in two decades," was the opening comment from Jeff Miller of the Center for Biological Diversity. "It's long past time to do something about this deadly-and preventable- epidemic of lead poisoning in the wild. We've taken lead out of gasoline, paint, water pipes and other places dangerous to people. Now it's time to get the lead out of hunting and fishing sports to save wildlife for needless poisoning."

    As expected, the shooting industry has fired back with a vengeance.

    "There simply is no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning use of traditional ammunition beyond current limitations, such as the scientifically based restriction on waterfowl hunting." said NSSF President Steve Sanetti."

    During the conference, spokespersons from both organizations were quick to say that they weren't anti-hunting or fishing, but were moving to save the estimated 10 million to 20 million birds and other animals that die each year from lead poisoning in the United States.

    That number, incidentally, is estimated to include animals scavenging on carcasses and "contaminated with lead bullet fragments" and any animal that might pick up and eat spent lead pellets or lost fishing weights.

    "The science on this issue is massive in breadth and unimpeachable in its integrity," said American Bird Conservancy president George Fenwick, offering "hundreds of peer-reviewed studies showing continued lead poisoning of large numbers of birds and other animals."

    Those 473 studies, he says, make the EPA petition "a prudent step to safeguard wildlife and reduce unacceptable human health risks."

    So, the American Bird Conservancy, Center for Biological Diversity, Association of Avian Veterinarians, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, and a California hunters' group Project Gutpile are asking for the ban under the Toxic Substances Control Act, which regulates dangerous chemicals in the United States.

    Only the ABC and CBD participated in the teleconference.

    In one respect, they're accurate in their assertion that their petition isn't just about banning hunting or fishing. While it cites the 3,000 tons of lead "shot into the environment by hunting every year" it also claims "80,000 tons are released at shooting ranges, and 4,000 tons are lost in ponds and streams as fishing lures and sinkers."

    So, the petition seeks a ban on lead in those situations as well.

    Since "viable alternatives" to lead in either bullets or fishing sinkers exist, they say it's not an anti-hunting or fishing petition. They were a little less reluctant to respond to questions regarding the fact their petition, if granted, would drive costs significantly higher for hunters, shooters and anglers.

    In contrast, the NSSF says a ban would have a negative impact on hunting, shooting and fishing -and wildlife conservation. The eleven percent federal excise tax manufacturers pay on ammunition is a primary source of funding of wildlife conservation. In fact, the NSSF asserts, that funding is the "financial backbone of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation."

    "Needlessly restricting or banning traditional ammunition absent sound science will hurt wildlife conservation efforts as fewer hunters take to the field," said NSSF Senior Vice President and General Counsel Lawrence G. Keane.

    "Hunters and their ammunition have done more for wildlife than the CBD ever will. And the CBD's scientifically baseless petition and endless lawsuits against state and federal wildlife managers certainly do not serve the wildlife that the organization claims to protect."

    One study cited by the two organizations found that "up to 87 percent of cooked game killed by lead ammunition can contain unsafe levels of lead." In fact, they said, "state health agencies had to recall venison donated to fed the hungry because of lead contamination from lead bullet fragments."

    That isn't necessarily the case.

    The study they cited was later discredited as having been both non-scientific in its methodology and "hopelessly biased" by its author. The recall of venison in Minnesota shelter programs was later found to be an unwarranted concern, although the state's Health, Agriculture and Natural Resources departments did create guidelines regarding processing of deer harvested using lead bullets.

    Officials later admitted the whole issue was overblown.

    Despite the seemingly impeachable "evidence" offered, it would be unwise to consider the petition as lacking merit.

    As demonstrated in a press conference executed only hours after the release announcing their petition, these groups are neither naive nor reluctant to have the entire matter argued in public.

    In fact, appear to believe they can get around the fact that the Environmental Protection Agency has no jurisdiction over ammunition, despite the Toxic Substances Control Act's regulating dangerous chemicals in the United States.

    Because ammunition is subject to a federal excise tax, ammunition is exempt from the Toxic Substances Control Act. It falls under other guidelines.

    Guidelines the CBD and ABC believe can be circumvented.

    "Viable alternatives to lead as an ammunition compoent exist today," the Center for Biological Diversity's Jeff Miller told me, "because those alternatives exist, we're asking that the components of ammunition be covered by the Toxic Substances Control Act."

    That approach would, at least theoretically, allow the EPA to exert control over ammunition -without endangering the revenues produced from the federal excise tax collected from ammunition manufacturers.

    And what of the longstanding argument that forcing non-traditional ammunition on hunters and shooters would cause many to stop pursuing both?

    "We heard that argument when California banned lead because of concerns over the California condor," was the response, "it never materialized- at least not in any number large enough to measure."

    That may be true, but this latest petition calls for a ban on lead based ammunition in all applications-meaning recreational shooters would also be forced to use alternative ammunition. It would also ban the use of the estimated hundreds of millions of rounds of surplus ammunition that exist across the country.

    Replacing that ammunition would certainly drive up costs for shooting in any form.

    It's no secret that the alternatives to lead used in the fishing tackle business has resulted in significant cost increases, and the processes for manufacturing fishing weights are significantly simpler than the complicated processes involved in manufacturing non-lead ammunition.

    The costs of retooling and meeting demand for lead-free ammunition would, in fact, be passed on to consumers in the form of higher ammunition costs. In today's uncertain economic climate, that would almost certainly guarantee that many shooters and hunters facing already tight budgets could be priced out of hunting.

    Is this the first shot in what looks to be another protracted war?

    Probably.

    The Environmental Protection Agency has, by statute, 90 days after the petition's filing to either grant or deny that petition.

    If the EPA Administrator grants the petition, "appropriate proceedings" would commence immediately.

    If the petition is denied, the Administrator would be required to publish the reasons for the denial in the Federal Register.

    We'll keep you posted.

    --Jim Shepherd

    Editor's Note: You can read the entire petition by clicking this link
     
  2. huntinandhotrods

    huntinandhotrods Member

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    You guys better do whatever possible to stop this.

    I live in California where they banned all lead bullets for hunting. This has stopped many people I know from hunting in the last two years.

    Price is only one issue. The price of the new ammunition is out of site. I shoot a 300 win mag that would group 1/2" at 100 yards everytime. These new non lead bullets (green bullets as the idiots around here call them) won't hold a group either. My 300 mag was lucky to shoot a 6" group with them. My 22-250 that was a tack driver doesn't shoot them any better. A box of the 300 mags are $75.00 for 20 shells and the 22-250 are $45 to $50 a box of 20.

    Luckily I live on a big cattle ranch that is about 10,000 acers and with out the wardens knowing it shoot what ever bullets I want.

    I hear (but have never seen) that the game wardens patrolling the public lands carry special metal detectors that they can run over the bullet hole in a deer that can detect if it was shot with a lead bullet.

    Not that my story matters but if you don't want to deal with this in your state you better stop it now!!! Keep Shootin Dwayne
     
  3. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Fewer ducks now then when the lead ban went into effect. Glad to see what a sucess that was. This is about gun control plain and simple. The furry friends of the animals have filed no petition about house cats which are the number 1 killer of song birds in this country. Feral or tame they kill more birds then any other source. So.... What is this really about? Getting more people to stop hunting. I still remeber the old farts who wouldn't put steel through there guns BY GAWD!!!! Well... Who got screwed in that deal? The guys who quit hunting! The anti crowd will stop at nothing and ignorant people read there drivel and consider it fact since there is usaaly no counter point when they get an audience. Jeff
     
  4. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    There is already a ban on lead for waterfowl hunting. The state of Calf has a ban on all lead for hunting and shooting. This could be a serious problem for the ATA.
     
  5. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    This one has me stumped.

    "One study cited by the two organizations found that "up to 87 percent of cooked game killed by lead ammunition can contain unsafe levels of lead." In fact, they said, "state health agencies had to recall venison donated to fed the hungry because of lead contamination from lead bullet fragments."

    Comment -
    I have been fortunate to shoot 10 bucks in PA and our family has eaten all 10. I have also shot pheasants, and rabbits (when such critters used to be available.)

    I am hard pressed to understand how the meat from a deer, or pheasant gets contaiminated with lead when the animal dies right away? The only way a 'study" could conclude such contamination is if a person ate the bullet fragment in bite of meat; and what kind of an idiot wouldn't spit it out - lead sure doesn't feel like anything you should swallow.

    The "meat" isn't "contaminated" - the meat contains a small piece of lead in it and the immdiately surrounding tissue, and the eater put lead in their mouth.

    If someone eats a small peice of a toothpick or clove that held the pinapple on a ham, is the ham "contaminated" ? No, someone ate something they shouldn't eat.

    I'd like to see the methodology on these lead contamination "studies" and the definition of contamination vs. contained. (or transfered by)

    js in PA
     
  6. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    This one has me stumped.

    "One study cited by the two organizations found that "up to 87 percent of cooked game killed by lead ammunition can contain unsafe levels of lead." In fact, they said, "state health agencies had to recall venison donated to fed the hungry because of lead contamination from lead bullet fragments."

    Comment -
    I have been fortunate to shoot 10 bucks in PA and our family has eaten all 10. I have also shot pheasants, and rabbits (when such critters used to be available.)

    I am hard pressed to understand how the meat from a deer, or pheasant gets contaiminated with lead when the animal dies right away? The only way a 'study" could conclude such contamination is if a person ate the bullet fragment in bite of meat; and what kind of an idiot wouldn't spit it out - lead sure doesn't feel like anything you should swallow.

    The "meat" isn't "contaminated" - the meat contains a small piece of lead in it and the immdiately surrounding tissue, and the eater put lead in their mouth.

    If someone eats a small peice of a toothpick or clove that held the pinapple on a ham, is the ham "contaminated" ? No, someone ate something they shouldn't eat.

    I'd like to see the methodology on these lead contamination "studies" and the definition of contamination vs. contained. (or transfered by)

    js in PA
     
  7. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Are they using steel shot in Calf for trapshooting?
     
  8. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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  9. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you use instead of lead will be "harmful" too if these Jackasses have it their way...Bill
     
  10. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Jack, this was in the article above..."The study they cited was later discredited as having been both non-scientific in its methodology and "hopelessly biased" by its author. The recall of venison in Minnesota shelter programs was later found to be an unwarranted concern"

    That's how the real information gets lost, because it gets buried in the rest of the article. The study was not valid. There is no problem with eating game shot with lead bullets.
     
  11. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    Thanks, Recurvyarcher. I was hard pressed to see how the bucks I shot in the neck contaminated me when I consumed the animal's rump.

    Although the 'anti's' would eat that study up ! ha

    Anytime I get in a discussion with an anti, and I ask for facts or details, or I offer them, the conversation begins to errode very quickly.

    js in PA
     
  12. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Correction,Copper bullets are only used in what is defined as the California Condor area,The rest of the state can still shoot lead.Last year the F&G commision voted down another effort to ban lead ammo satewide for lack pf scientific evidence.The only yes vote came from the queer that dwells in the Condor area!!!!!!!PJ
     
  13. Vince McNamara

    Vince McNamara Member

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    Lead bullets are only banned in the condor protection areas. This is all of southern calif and about 1/2 of central cal. Lead shot is still legal to hunt with(dove, quail, chukar etc).

    Vince McNamara
     
  14. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    Unbelievable. You can smoke a carton of cigarettes a day until you fall over dead with a heart attack or lung cancer and the government (EPA) don't give a damn about that.

    Disguised gun control orchestrated by the liberal socialist. "Change" what a crock of sh*t.
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I hate to say it, but divide and conquer got us to this point. The waterfowlers were the first ones hit. Then others piecemeal. But as long as other shooting factions weren't affected, they didn't care, and many keep on voting for the clowns who support extremist environmentalism and anti-gun agendas.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    From NSSF....

    Oppose Petition to Ban<br>
    Traditional Ammunition<br>
    <br>
    All Gun Owners, Hunters and Shooters,<br>
    <br>
    The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) -- the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry -- urges you to contact the Environmental Protection Agency to oppose a petition filed August 3 by the extremist Center for Biological Diversity to ban traditional ammunition. Your right to choose the ammunition you hunt and shoot with is at stake.<br>
    <br>
    Express your opposition by calling or e-mailing:<br>
    <br>
    Lisa P. Jackson<br>
    Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency<br>
    1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW<br>
    Washington, DC 20460<br>
    (202) 564-4700<br>
    Fax: (202) 501-1450<br>
    Email: jackson.lisa@epa.gov<br>
    <br>
    And<br>
    <br>
    Steve Owens<br>
    Assistant Administrator, Prevention, Pesticides & Toxic Substances U.S. <br>Environmental Protection Agency<br>
    1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW Washington, DC 20460<br>
    (202) 564-2902<br>
    Fax: (202) 546-0801<br>
    Email: Owens.steve@epa.gov<br>
    <br>
    Background:<br>
    <br>
    The National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry, encourages all gun owners, hunters and shooters to oppose the petition filed with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) seeking to ban the use of traditional ammunition containing lead-core components. This ban would apply to ALL ammunition including ammunition used by target shooters.

    Filed by several agenda-driven groups including the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD), the petition erroneously claims that the use of traditional ammunition poses a danger to (1) wildlife, in particular raptors such as bald eagles, that may feed on entrails or unrecovered game left in the field and (2) that there is a human health risk from consuming game harvested using traditional ammunition. Also falsely alleged in the petition is that the use of traditional ammunition by hunters is inconsistent with the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976 -- Congress expressly exempted ammunition from being regulated as a "toxic substance."
    <br>
    NSSF urges you to stress the following in your opposition:<br>
    <br>
    * There is no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition beyond current limitations, such as the scientifically based restriction on waterfowl hunting.

    * Recent statistics from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service showing that from 1981 to 2006 the number of breeding pairs of bald eagles in the United States increased 724 percent. And much like the bald eagle, raptor populations throughout the United States are soaring.

    * A ban on traditional ammunition would have a serious negative impact on wildlife conservation. The federal excise tax that manufacturers pay on the sale of the ammunition (11 percent) is a primary source of wildlife conservation funding. The bald eagle's recovery, considered to be a great conservation success story, was made possible and funded by hunters using traditional ammunition - the very ammunition organizations like the CBD are now demonizing.
     
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