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No child left behind

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jakearoo, Oct 2, 2007.

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  1. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Apparently the results of this program are in. So I guess it is a good thing. JAKE
     
  2. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    I wouldn't be too sure. Both study design and statistical analysis can be flawed or biased to demonstrate a desired result.

    Rollin
     
  3. David Knapp

    David Knapp TS Member

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    Rollin

    I am just checking, did you hear what GB said. "Childrens do Learn". The man will never be considered an intellectual.

    David Knapp

    No Child Left Behind is a bunch of crap. The child getting left behind is the smart one.
     
  4. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    We believe the parents are ultimately responsible for teaching. My kids go to public school, but I supplement and extend where we see fit. Most curriculum is poor at best; it's amazing kids learn anything.

    Johnny is finally getting it. He's very smart but doesn't get enough practice because he's doing boy stuff outside alot. We worked through the summer on spelling - we did about 40 lessons in a great program I purchsed from SRA called Spelling Mastery. He did well and it's showing in his spelling grade.

    We used "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons", by Siegfried Engelmann, with both our kids. Great program. Uses phonics and some sight reading when you can't sound it out. Studied under Engelmann for my Masters. His method is called Direct Instruction which was tested against all the other major theoretical models in the 60s and 70s. DI won. The rest didn't come close.

    If you expect the government to teach your kids, you've got another thing coming. If you've got a kid that has a hard time learning, you'd better study up. I did because I was one of those kids who couldn't figure out what in the hell the teacher was talking about. Much of what you hear should be ignored. There's often one or two clues, but most of it is spurious.

    Pay attention to what works.
     
  5. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I think there is too much money being spent on this "touchy feelie" stuffy anyway. We didn't have or need these programs when we were kids. And it's just like this child medical stuff they keep hitting Bush with, trying to get him to sign it. Just trying to increase the size of government, by saying it's for the kids. Nobody has been able to explain to me whey we need this now. We have a war to fight, in case they didn't notice, and that already takes money. Money some don't want to spend, and that's fine, except we are already in there, and the only other choice is to short spend on the troops, which is not an option in my opinion. The liberals are just mad because they think this is taking money away from their pet "social welfare" programs at home. It's like Greenspan said, the war is really just a drop in the bucket, it's the social programs over the long term that are going to break us. You may not like him, but he's a smart man. He criticized Bush for his spending, which was correct, then the liberal media conveniently missed when he said that the real long term problem is not the war, it's the Medicare scrip drug credits, Medicare in general, ect. growing and growing and growing.


    You can argue about the war all you want, and you may make some good points, but nobody, and I mean nobody, has been able to make a coherent point about why we need this ever increasing tidal wave of money on social programs. It's a permanent budget busting white elephant (or is that donkey?)
    It will be even "better" when Hillary gets (back) in office. Then it will be field day for the liberal welfare industry. That's why we gotta stop this b!tch, and frankly, we need to figure which Republican is going to do it.
     
  6. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Joe Kuhn:

    Most teachers would agree that positive parental involvement is a key factor in your child’s success. Simply the conversation that a child hears in his or her first few years of development has a major impact on your child’s success. Reading and interacting with infants and young children is critical.

    Being there for them and demonstrating a positive work ethic and praise for their success really helps in a child’s development.


    Charlie Don't Surf:

    Educating children is not “touchy feely stuff. Our children are our future. I think that our nation would have torn itself apart years ago without many of the social programs you dislike. These programs have been developed and implemented over the years by both Democratic and Republican politicians and approved by the President and Congress. They are from perfect but name another nation in the history of the world who has had a better system. Some people might name the Scandinavian countries but their labor productivity rates are lower and tax rates are higher than ours.


    No Child Left Behind (NCLB)

    My understanding from many discussions with other teachers and reading of related articles is that No Child Left Behind (NCLB) is a grossly under funded Federal mandate on states and local school corporations. Most estimates that I have seen put NCLB at less than 20% federal funding for the mandate that NCLB requires. In particular, this means teaching all children, including those with severe mental and physical handicaps.

    When you walk the halls of public schools, you see many children in special wheelchairs and/or using special adaptive devices. In the parking lot you often see special busses that transport severely handicapped children to school.

    In our school system, we have many legal students (and probably some illegal) who speak many different languages. They come from all over Europe, Central and South America, Asia, Africa and other nations. Tutors and special books must often be acquired for these students.

    I have not heard a lot of people in education express a positive opinion about the accountability that NCLB requires. If a school corporation does not want to follow NCLB, I think that they can elect to do so by not accepting Federal funding.
     
  7. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    School_teacher, in my opinion, a person in our school system needs to speak ENGLISH, no other language should be allowed to be spoken there. If they don't know the language, what the hell are they doing here. We aren't supposed to bend over to them, they are supposed to fit in with us. Too many jabberin Meskins in our shcool system is the problem.

    Gne J.
     
  8. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    educating our youth is "touchy-feely"?

    Lord...that's a perfect example as to why we are no longer the top in education systems worldwide.

    Maybe we'd better start learning Hindi or Chinese. Maybe our childrens[sic] will learn better. :|
     
  9. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    trapshootin hippie:

    The instruction is in English. Students are expected to learn to speak English. However, they speak whatever they speak when they enter school. By law, they have to go to school immediately upon arrival in the community.

    Flincher100:

    Head Start is a wonderful program. How can you say that Head Start has not had a very positive effect? When a child is in an "at risk" environment, early intervention is critical. Many of these kids have nothing to eat at home. It is hard to teach a hungry child.

    A sad fact is that one of our nation’s growth industries is prison. It costs well over $50,000 a year to house and feed a prisoner (Sheriff Joe excluded). I suggest that, as a nation, we would have a greater return from more Head Start type programs, smaller classes and more vocational training than simply building more prisons.
     
  10. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    No child left behind is just another name for Pass-Em-Along and let the real world deal with them. The way most school systems deal with this program is pass them along so that the student is not left behind and thusly gets no comprehension that you get what you work for in life. If the kid was given an "F" and told you dont get to pass to the next grade or you dont get your diploma they will learn the most important and most basic lesson in life ... you get what you work for and what you deserve in life.
     
  11. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    If more ststes used the death penalty, there would be no prison overcrowding.
     
  12. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    So do you all think that spanking is a good thing? I mean the question is: Should the childrens be spanked? And if so, who should spank the childrens? Mothers or fathers? Jake
     
  13. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    school_teacher ... you sound kind of like a fresh young teacher yet to see the full picture.

    Head start is a nice program and it does feed the kids on the tax-payers dime but it does not help the kid farther down the road in adult hood. Comparing prisons to head start is a total joke. If you have a head start program in the ghettos of Detroit and the child gets a decent meal before going to school how is that going to help the future convict when in a few years he begins to run with the neighborhood homeys and gets into trouble that causes a downward spiral that lands him in prison or does the kid just say ... I was in the head start program and had a nice breakfast before going to school ... dang ... he gets fed either way on the taxpayers dime ... either in school or in prison ... and prison is a far better deal cause he's going to get 3 squares a day instead of just breakfast and he will also get a better education in prison as a lawyer than almost all of those that go to law school.

    Yep ... head start is really a great program ... just another program that the tax payers must pay for.
     
  14. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Jakeroo, I can't answer the question about spanking. I never got a spanking when I was growing up. I did howerer, on many ocasions, get my ass tore up from a good ole fashioned whoopin. After all these years, I can't see where it made me a worse person, just taught me to not do whatever it was I that got my ass tore up for in the first place.
     
  15. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    or learn how not to get caught and still do it so in reality a good arse whoopin is a good thing cause you learn from it!!!
     
  16. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    hmmm....there was a thread the other day about making shot out of glass or other alternate materials.

    I wonder if we can grind up the stupid kids and make shot?

    On a serious note...my 69 year old father volunteers to read to the kindergartners in his town. He says he can tell right off which kids get read to and worked with at home, and which don't.

    The PARENTS always have and always will play the biggest part in the education of their children. You can head-start the crap out of them, but if momma is a crack whore and daddy is one of any 15 different guys, you're just spending money.
     
  17. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I have a kid in elementry school that is getting a decent education in spite of the NCLB program. It seems as if that program is all the teachers can talk about during the parent teacher conferences. I don't know why they rant to me about it because my kid is functioning at the upper levels of their system. But looking at NCLB from the teacher's viewpoint I can see how the program makes their job much more difficult. We have a growing mexican poplulation in our area and most of these mexican kids enter the school system with zero capabilities in the english language. So the teachers need to get these kids to learn some english before they can teach them the minimum required by the NCLB program. If the teachers fail to do that, the school will lose part or all of their federal funding. In addition to these non-english speakers, there are many kids from disfunctional homes that have serious learning impairments. The teachers are expected to bring these kids up to standards as well. All of this sounds great, but as usual somebody has to pay and in the case of the NCLB program it is the kids without the learning problems that are penalized. They are in fact getting short changed. Our solution is to supplement our daughter's education at home.

    So where I am going with all of this is that parents need to take the initiative to educate their own children beyond what is available in the public school system. If they don't then their children's education will be limited by the minimal standards of the NCLB program.
     
  18. Trapgeezer

    Trapgeezer TS Member

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    Bush talks about the cost of these programs being high. He apparently has not looked at the Iraq checkbook balance recently. He also vetoed the "children's health care" bill. I wonder if it is not less expensive than the welfare money that will be spent because it was vetoed.

    Dave K, I thought that was normal language for a dummy.
     
  19. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    Gentlemen:

    If your manufacturing capability is only producing at 60%,,,,,its easy to get excited over a move up to 73%!!!! But it still sucks!!!!!

    In this case-------if no child is allowed to get ahead,,,then none gets left behind!!!! And thats how this program works............

    AKA Grammie...........
     
  20. smokerz

    smokerz TS Member

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    **The PARENTS always have and always will play the biggest part in the education of their children. You can head-start the crap out of them, but if momma is a crack whore and daddy is one of any 15 different guys, you're just spending money.**

    Good point, jeff p. Children born to welfare Mommas, whether they're crack-whores or just plain stupid, is a real problem.

    So, what do we do about that? Back in the good ole days, the deep South states had a remedy - forced sterilization...but that's been outlawed. They won't use birth control (and the so-called "Christian" Bible thumpers don't want them to).

    So, how do we keep these ill educated, poor, husbandless women from producing more children who will grow up with no father, poor Mommas, no future, and a pre-punched ticket to prison?

    I don't know.
     
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