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Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rollin Oswald, May 15, 2011.

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  1. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    If you are relatively new to trap shooting, you have probably heard a lot of advice. Part of it may have been, "buy the best gun you can afford."

    That isn't necessarily bad advice but it is misleading if the adviser is telling you that to shoot well, you need an expensive gun. It is much more important to shoot a gun that fits YOU.

    The way you shoulder or mount your gun, how you place your feet (your stance) and your posture (your shooting form) affects how well you shoot. To use the shooting form recommended by coaches and trainers, your gun must fit. A gun that fits describes a gun that has stock dimensions, which allows a shooter of your individual size and shape to use the best form.

    Your shooting posture (particularly that of the head and neck affects your swing smoothness, and the likelihood of your eye remaining in line with the rib as you swing to targets. Not only does your shooting form affect the amount of felt recoil you experience, but it also affects how rapidly you will improve as you practice.

    If you are 5' 9" tall and weigh 160 pounds, you can probably use a correct shooting form when you know what it is. This is possible because the stock dimensions on virtually all guns sold in the U.S. are chosen in an attempt to fit average shooters of that height and weight. It does not always work but more often than not, it does.

    If your height and weight differ vary much from those of the average shooter, you are very unlikely to be using a recommended shooting form. This is not to say that you will never be able to shoot well if you don't use the correct form. There are a small number of good shooters with above average talent, that shoot very well using poor shooting forms. They are few, but they do exist. With excellent vision, hand/eye coordinating and a superior mental attitude, if you practice long enough, you might become one of them.

    A better way, is to make your gun to fit you if you are not an "average" shaped shooter for whom guns are designed. The best way is to visit a good, professional, stock fitter. Good ones will teach you the correct shooting form and then alter the dimensions of your stock to allow you to use it. Then, all you have to do is remember to use it when you shoot.

    If you cannot visit a good stock fitter, consider buying a copy of "Stock Fitter's Bible - Second Edition". It and its predecessors, "Stock Fitting Secrets" and the first "Stock Fitter's Bible," were written to teach stock fitting and shooting form to shooters who cannot visit a good stock fitter.

    This takes longer than visiting a stock fitter because you must read and learn stock fitting before you can visit a gunsmith and ask him to change the dimensions on your stock the way you need then changed.

    If you are interested in improving your shooting form, click on the Website URL above and visit my Website. My books have been sold all over the U.S. and to shooters in more than 18 foreign countries.

    If you need a book review, ask anyone who has read one.

    Rollin
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Absolute good advice for any new shooter learning the ins and outs of shotgunning through proper fit and form! Would save tons of money spent learning things the hard way too!! Heck, the history of the shotgun is worth the price of admission alone!

    Hap
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Rollin,

    You write:

    "There are a small number of good shooters with above average talent, that shoot very well using poor shooting forms. They are few, but they do exist."


    Ok, you've hooked my interest. Name two.
     
  4. need to shoot more

    need to shoot more Active Member

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    is the average h/w really 5.9" and 160 lb??
     
  5. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Hap - Thank you.

    Buzz-gun - You're right; that's what I wrote. Surely you can come up with a better nonsense question than that. Strain your mind and think again.

    need-to-shoot-more - Read what I wrote again; it was not "5.9"" but rather, "5' 9" tall and weigh 160 pounds." If it were "5.9" the question would not be 7 1/2 or 8 shot but more likely, 36 or 44 shot in their 77 gauge guns.

    Rollin
     
  6. Straight99

    Straight99 Member

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    Average person 5.9" and 160#.

    Average trap shooter 5.9" and 260#. Most of us are eating our way to AA.
     
  7. hoot619

    hoot619 Member

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    From some of the shooting form pictures I have seen the guns have a lot of

    adjustments for them. Which adjuster ,comb, rib goes with feet planted hell

    they should be planted look at the weight they are holding up. Also how do you

    adjust for forward stabilizer ( big belly). Vented barrels ??? some of the

    forearms of these (shooters)I couldn't lift up. By the way I am in a weight

    reduction mode now, I have my own shake the hell out of you rototiller that I

    use , not because I want too the dumb buddy of mine lent his good one out and

    not to me I'm next. Ken Uhlbeck Will trade said machine for o/u trap gun

    no darn cheap stuff either. (the o/u

    I do agree that gun fit is everything that Roland implied. Ken
     
  8. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Have to disagree. You state "If you are 5' 9" tall and weigh 160 pounds, you can probably use a correct shooting form when you know what it is. This is possible because the stock dimensions on virtually all guns sold in the U.S. are chosen in an attempt to fit average shooters of that height and weight. It does not always work but more often than not, it does." I am a long way from 5'9" & 160 lbs. and I can take any gun off the rack and it usually fits me so therefore your statement that most guns are made for your average person is false. Try 6'4" 250. You make some pretty bold statements which I don't think are real.

    Don
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Don, the 5'-9" & 160 numbers is something the manufacturers came up with as a fit all years ago for the average size hunter buying new guns off the shelf. When it comes precise stock fit, 6 of those average guys close to those numbers may possibly all have different dimensions in the stock if it's truly fitted to his specks! All of us have learned to fit ourselves to a stock and call it a fit but that's just not ideal. Fit is the primary reason manufacturers began putting a mid-bead on ribs. If a shooter could make the proverbial figure 8, it's a fit and he bought the new gun on the spot!

    Hap
     
  10. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Don,

    Nearly anyone can shoot nearly any gun but that does noot mean that they shoot using a good shooting form. I also bet that you cannot shoot using the shooting form that most coaches recommend.

    I would guess that with your height, you cannot shoot using a natually erect shooting posture and that you have to lower your cheek to put it on the comb.

    Rollin
     
  11. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with big don on this one, I'm 5'-9"---145-150#s (70 yrs. old) and I can shoot most guns fairly well, (not good) however I do use a 15 to 15 1\2" stock depending on where and how the trigger is located. I personally do NOT like a gun that shoots much higher than 60\40, that's probably because I started with my field grade 870, then onto a M31 TC, I have tried others & just feel more comfortable with a fairly flat shooter. have shot the same M31 TC most of the last 40 yrs. Ross Puls
     
  12. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Ross,

    "have shot the same M31 TC most of the last 40 yrs" you and Vic Reinders(sp). Vic also shot a Model 31 for most of his life and shot it very well (AA shooter), even with the missing sections of the vent rib near the muzzle (and a perfect trigger).

    Rollin
     
  13. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Joe,

    I agree completely. Visiting a good stock fitter is always better than fitting a gun yourself. For one thing, a professional stock fitter might notice a flaw in the shooting form that the shooter might not realize exists. Often a change in stock dimensions can eliminate it.

    Rollin
     
  14. TIKI2RUBICON

    TIKI2RUBICON TS Member

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    I am 6 foot, 204 pounds. In June of 2005 in Saline County, Eldorado, Illinois, Mike and Chris Kiefer were with me on that fall day, a tad after noon. We had a spring loaded bird thrower, and two of my shotguns. The first being a Remington 1100 Skeet, the second being a Wingmaster 12. We had 1000 rounds of Federal #8's and four cases of birds. My mother-in-law kept track of kills, clipped, and missed. We shot no rabbits. I ended the day with 274 kills, 11 clipped, and 15 misses. I have been shooting shotguns since 1988. I was taught form by my grandfather. I rarely use it, and when I do, I am not aware of it. I got up the next day with a few nice red spots. Form is only part of any shooting equation, practice, sight, wind, reaction, judgement, and load also play their parts.
    Sincerely,
    Joshua Cox
     
  15. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Rollin: I think Mr. Rienders "perfect" trigger was more in his head rather than in the trigger guard LOL, mine is far from perfect as it rather frequently un-hooks too early--late--under-- over--behind and many other places it shouldn't. But I still love the old girl. Ross Puls
     
  16. RV4driver

    RV4driver TS Member

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    I started shooting (fairly recently...three years ago) with a Browning Special Trap (Citori). It didn't fit me. I didn't know that until I read Rollin's book. I made some changes to the pitch and cant, enlarged the slots in the adjustable comb so I could line up the beads with my face, and added a rib and some comb extensions to get a more "heads-up" mount. My scores immediately improved. I shot that gun for some time, until I just got a CG Summit Trap. It had a right-cast stock, raised comb, high rib, proper cant and pitch...in other words, it did out of the box what I made the Citori do with all my adjustments. Again, the scores rose. I believe Rollin knows his stuff. The people that borrowed the book from me made changes that helped them. You will do what you think is right for you, but for me, I'm glad I believed what his book reviewers said. I could've taken decades to figure it out for myself, or I could read the book. I read the book. Lucky me. I'm no spring chicken, I don't have the decades left to figure it out for myself. Thanks, Rollin.

    Jeff
     
  17. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    Just want to say thanks to Rollin. I bought his Stock Fitters Bible back in 2008 when I started coaching our kids. I have read it at least 4 or 5 times, he will tell you that you will learn something each time you re-read it and I can tell you that it's true.

    Our kids have had pretty good success and I give Rollin a big chunk of the credit. The first thing I do with the kids is get their guns to fit as well as possible. And of course with kids, (they do this thing called grow!) it's a constant challenge to keep them fitted. I flat out could not have given them as much help as I have without this book.

    I can also add that there is tons of other info beyond just stock fitting. Working with new shooters the sections on shooting form are extremely helpful as well.

    Thanks Rollin!
     
  18. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Thanks for your comments, guys. You are very welcome.

    Rollin
     
  19. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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  20. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

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    Good ol Rollin--Sometimes wrong but never in doubt.................SMOKIT
     
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