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New To Trap, 3 guns to chose from. Recommendations

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Savage99Stan, Jan 3, 2009.

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  1. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    While I'm not overly familiar with any of those listed, the first is a sporting clays gun and will pattern a little lower than a trap gun. If the Remington is one of the Baikals, I'd stay away from it. I think you'd be better served to visit your local gun shop (one that specializes in trap/skeet/etc guns) and look at a used 870 TB, TC, trap or even an 11-87 trap. Lots of them out there and they last forever.
     
  2. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    none of them
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    None of the ones you listed.

    I'd recommend a used Remington 1100 Trap.
     
  4. jm1079

    jm1079 Well-Known Member

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    Get a used Remington 1100 or 11-87 trap. You will only be throwing away your hard-earned money on the guns you mentioned. FWIW. jm
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    If you shop around for a used Browning Citori or Beretta 682 and later decide to sell the gun you will get your money back no problem. If you try to resell one of the 3 guns you mentioned you will take a lickin on the resell value because they are oddballs. I don't mean to sound snobbish because all the trapguns I own were bought used and are now worth more than I paid for them.
     
  6. nspktr1

    nspktr1 TS Member

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    I have an 870 TB 150th Aniversary Model I'll sell you for $550 or an 1100 150th Aniversary Model I'll sell you for $650. Send me a PM if your interested.
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    An 870 is a good very reliable trap gun and a used BT99 would be an excellent choice for Singles and Handicap. I'm afraid there is no such thing as a quality new O/U for $500 to $800, it might work for a while as a single shot before it malfunctions, been there done that.
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    stepper,

    To be completely blunt, your options are as follows:

    1. Buy one of those $500 to $800 guns, and use it for trap shooting. I believe, and others will attest, you will eventually find out why many of the people posting here are trying to steer you away from these guns.

    2. Listen to the guys who have been there and done that and get a quality gun that is in your price range, like a used 870 trap, a used BT99, or a used 1100 trap.

    You asked for advice from trap shooters. Number 2 above is the advice you've been given. It is good advice.

    Your choice.
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    If your field Beretta shoots good, why not buy a trap stock for it? Much cheaper than buying a throw-away over/under for 5 to 8 hundred bucks! Then again, thats the way I would handle that problem. Hap
     
  10. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    I don't want to be too blunt but the three you like are not:
    a. very tradable
    b. have a very good reputation for longevity
    c. desirable by anyone else

    You get what you pay for.....you want an over/under, fine
    You want a good over/under...you need to go with something good...Browning would be the first choice...I've seen old Superposed Brownings for $800 and they would be ten times the gun that any of the three you listed would be.

    Take the advice of those who've been there. Buy cheap, pay the piper later.

    They won't perform, they won't last, and lastly, they won't return you're investment. A good quality gun will appreciate in value, in most cases. Those you list will drop 50% or more when you walk out the door with them and continue to go down from there.

    You can get a good BT99 for somewhere between 500 and 1000 and always be able to get your money back.

    Check Gunbroker or Auctionarms to see what your choices are bringing on the auction block...and don't show me "asking" or "starting" prices...only concrete "bid" prices.

    Sorry to sound blunt but I've been there, done that. Saving you heartache and trouble.
     
  11. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    The list is long. Some examples:

    Inferior (soft) materials in the internal mechanism, prone to failure.

    Poor machining of those parts.

    The barrels may or may not both shoot to the same point of impact.

    Many of these guns have to go back to the manufacturer to get them to shoot the second barrel.

    Poor wood-to-metal fitting.

    Abysmally bad and/or heavy triggers (which you may not notice or understand until you shoot a gun with a good trigger.)

    Parts (like vent ribs or barrel ribs) falling off.

    Remember, when you go out and hunt, you take maybe 5-10 shots. These guns are fine for that purpose. When you attend a trap shoot, you might shoot 300 targets in one day. And to get ready for that trap shoot, you might shoot 500 targets that week. And if you go to a big shoot, you might shoot 300 targets a day for 10 days. You need a good quality gun that will stand up to high volume shooting.

    Here's another thing. There aren't many of those guns around. There are millions of Remington 870's and 1100's and Browning BT-99's around, parts are easily available, and any gunsmith worth his salt knows how to fix them, blindfolded. These guns are well made, and are going to last for hundreds of thousands of shots.

    Like I said, your choice.
     
  12. shooterxt

    shooterxt TS Member

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    Stepper,
    A quality used fiream like the Remingtons or the Brownings have a proven track record, we are not saying they never break down, the truth is anything mechanical will fail at some point. However most serious shooters (the ones you see out at the range week after week) are shooting 400-700 targets a month or more. It is not unheard of for a shooter to shoot 10,000 registered birds in a year. Most of your Bargain O/U in the $500-$800 range will not hold up to this kind of activity. Not to mention who will work on your equipment if and when it fails. Purchasing a bargain gun will only show you months of frustration waiting for your gun to be repaired by the factory who put it together. And that really is no fun. . . A good used Remington or Browning can be repaired by most compitent gunsmiths and the parts should be in stock. Not to mention if you do your homework and shop the used section you can always find a deal the could be worth more after you have put another 10,000 rounds through it. It is your money and ultimatley it is your decision my two cents if you are on a budjet, put your money on a good used gun. Check your local club and see what is on the board. Or make a wanted poster with your name and phone number and post that at your local club to see what happens. The cool thing about that is if it is a club member or a regular to the club they will probably let you shoot it before you buy. . .
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Go to your local trap club. Observe the shooters. You'll be able to pick out the ones who are the good shooters. When you observe these shooters, take a look at what guns they shoot.

    I guarantee you will not see any of the better shooters using Mossberg Silvers, Traditions, Russian Remingtons, Stoegers, Tri-Star's, etc.

    They'll be shooting Browning's, Remington's, Beretta's, Perazzi's, Winchester's, Krieghoff's and the like.

    There's a reason for that.
     
  14. Inspector 12

    Inspector 12 TS Member

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    "HOWEVER, please help me understand. WHY do you suggest other guns than the ones i mentioned? No pun intended... but i am sure a better bang for the buck. However they seem like quality O/U's! What makes them not? Have you shot them?"

    To help you understand, the problem with the guns you mention is that they are "economy field grade guns" that will not perform for the use you are going to try and apply them. As a gunsmith friend of mine put it once, "trap and skeet shooters take more shots in a couple of rounds than many hunter take all year". He wasn't being unkind, just that trap and skeet you fire many more times than a field / hunting application. The guns you listed are on the low economic scale and durability is one concern you mention having already hearing.

    Have I shot them, yes I bought a Mossberg Silver in 410 to shoot skeet with until I could find a better made 410. Other suggested I save my money and wait but impatience got the best of me. I now wish I would have listened as I still need to buy a good 410 and have a Mossberg to try and sell some day.

    As many above have noted, you could use a field gun to shoot trap, many do. The reality is if you learn with the proper equipment, you will be happier in the long run. I started shooting approx 5 years ago and have walked the path you seem detemined to start down with inexpensive equipment, now I am enjoying the sport much more having upgraded my shotguns to trap models. It would have been a cheaper journey to wait and buy the correct guns to start with.

    The suggestion to buy a trap stock for your Beretta was a good one. That would serve you until you found a double barrel trap gun to buy.

    Good luck with your journey.
     
  15. jagrdawger

    jagrdawger TS Member

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    Here is an example of the differences between the cheap and the not so cheap.

    Any of the guns mentioned (browning, Beretta, etc... and I will add SKB) are designed to shoot 10's of thousands of rounds and when they seem to be wearing out and getting loose they are then rebuilt. They are made with certain parts that are replaceable (trunions, hinge pins, etc). Once replaced they are like a new gun ready for 10's of thousands more rounds.

    If you read some of the threads recently about the Kreighoff blow up one of the questions that arose was how many hundreds of thousands of rounds should these guns be expected to shoot before they fail. The answer is unknown, but just the ball park, hundreds of thousands, should tell you something about the difference in an $800 new O/U and a little more for a used quality gun. The guns you referenced will be loose in a few thousand rounds at best with no way to tighten them up, at which point they become disposable.

    My feeling is any new sport/activity should be started with equipment that is at least up to the task of being competitive and making you competitive. A chevette is a car and could be raced, but why would you want too? I have worked with a number of youth the last few years who brought every thing conceivable to the trap field including one or two you mentioned. Invariably, the ones that do the best had reasonably suitable guns (although still field guns by and large) and had a much easier time learning the sport.

    If you are interested in learning the sport do it with equipment that gives you a chance. I shot a few rounds with a 26" Red Label, but when I realized the disadvantage it gave me and the amount of wear I was going to create on my favorite field gun I got a lightly used SKB 85TSS. The difference in performance was obvious. You may find a used SKB 585 or similar model or citori for near your price range that will be far superior. You may find someone at your club that has a closet queen that they might part with to help you get started also.
     
  16. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I have an 1100 trap grade I'll sell for $550.00. You can shoot it for a month or ten years and still get all your money back on a trade or selling it outright. Even if you go pro you could use this gun and be happy.........but you wont. I shot one to the 27 yd. line then thought I'd try something I thought was better. You'll do the same if you stick with the sport. If not you'll have zero out of pocket in the long run. It will always be worth what you paid for it - or more.

    Much luck to you and I hope you stay in the game. It is truly a lifetime sport shot at any level you choose and have lots of fun...................................... Barry Roach, 40 years in the sport and still love it.
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of used trap guns on the market. I suggest that you shoot as many of them as you can prior to buying one. Find one that is pleasant to shot, and which you can break a lot of birds with. Then buy it and you will be happy. HMB
     
  18. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    Another BIG factor is the comfort factor. The guns you listed (in all seriousness) will most likely beat you to death. After a couple of boxes you will be ready to retire from Trap shooting.

    As others have stated they are FIELD guns. That means usually they are light weight and very flat shooting guns. Targets rise in trap and a flat shooting gun will have a tendency to shoot under the target on the rise.

    They were intended to be carried all day while hunting and maybe fired four or five times a day. Trap guns when properly fitted can shoot 500 target marathons and leave your shoulder none the less for wear. Or at least mine do.

    It is no fun when it hurts to shoot the next target.

    Rock

    Jim
     
  19. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    If you MUST have an O/U, save a few more dollars and purchase a used Beretta, Browning or SKB. Those guns that you are eyeing will NOT stand up to the pounding a dedicated target gun endures. The trapshooters that have responded have given you sound advice...because a lot of us have made similar mistakes. Buy the 870, 1100, 11-87, 303 ,390 ,391 with the money you have, or save up a little more and get a target O/U. I'd rather spend the money I had and get shootin'! Good luck in your choice, and break 'em all.
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The BT99 if you can find one. Reason: very few moving parts, made as a single shot. It will last forever, just about.

    And you will not lose money on it.

    I love the 1100's also because they seem to fit nearly everyone. Not so keen on the 870's because the lighter weight gives more recoil.

    If you still want to be extra frugal go get the H & R trap gun. And lay in a good supply of Ben-Gay.

    HM
     
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