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New style AA's cracking

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 1881home, Jan 6, 2011.

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  1. 1881home

    1881home TS Member

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    New style AA

    I'm having problems with brand new, once fired, Winchester, 12ga. red AA's splitting where the roll folds over into the crimp. The splits are not there when brand new in the box. But after the first firing, these splits are showing up. The split is usually about 3/16" to 1/4" long, and they often show a burn spot at the beginning of the split. I'm concerned that the burn spot, or burn hole, if you prefer, could damage the chamber. When you reload these hulls for the first time, the split makes it difficult to chamber the shell - you have to push it into the chamber.

    Are any of you experiencing the same problem? You would expect a premium shell to hold up better than this! Winchesters discount shell, available at Wally World, holds up better than the AA. I've sent about two dozen of these empties to Winchester, but it could be awhile before the diagnose the problem.

    I would appreciate any information you may have.
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Send me all your once fired AA's, if your having problems. I'll reload them, I have no issues with AA's, and never have.
     
  3. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    Noodle,

    I had the exact same issue with AA's. The ends on once fired were splitting and in some cases had what I would call a pin hole right where the hull would roll over to crimp. Perhaps not as many hulls as you describe, but enough of them that I was really surprised that they would do that. Some looked like they had shot a low pressure load of the really old Red Dot that was super dirty, almost black. Really surprised at that more than the splits. Didn't seem to impact performance, they broke targets, but reloaded rather poorly, and some were so bad I did not even attempt it. Life's too short to push a poor hull, so they hit the trash bin.

    Fixed the problem changing brands, but it was difficult being a creature of habit.
     
  4. stingray44130

    stingray44130 Member

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    Been going on for years there junk
     
  5. 1881home

    1881home TS Member

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    Like some of you, I'm a creature of habit, too. I've reloaded AA's since they came out! Hate to think of changing. I'd rather see Winchester get on the ball and produce a quality shell with some longevity!

    If anybody knows why, with some degree of science, that this happening, let us know.
     
  6. wm rike

    wm rike Member

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    Not after the first load. I have no hard numbers here, but I kind of figure they are good for 4-5 reloads before a split appears somewhere, once in a while a great big rip down the side. I'm just loading light one ounce jobs. Remingtons are the reloading workhorses.
     
  7. BigDave1200

    BigDave1200 Member

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    A friend of mine that I shoot with said the same thing about the hulls from the last flat that he bought. He said most are cracked after the first fire. Is this a bad lot? I load mostly Remington but any of the new style AA's that I have loaded, I have not experienced that.

    Dave
     
  8. trinketshooter

    trinketshooter TS Member

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    I bought some once-fired hulls one time that split after the first or a couple loads. Not every hull but more than you would expect. They looked different. The plastic had sort of a satin finished rather than the normal shiny finish they usually have. I still wouldn't switch to any other hull. Neil
     
  9. RonC

    RonC TS Member

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    I find some of the dark grays split down the sides in as few as 3-5 reloads. The reds show holes at the crimps but I can't see any difference in them at this stage and new hulls. Unless they are new or twice fired, I use Winchester hulls for practice, don't want to see a side split in a hull on a shoot off sort of thing. Remington hulls are my main competition hulls. Win Super-Target are fine for a couple of reloads but any more and they get stiff on the ends and the crimps start to open. Remington gun clubs are good for 7-8 reloads before you start to question them; in my experience.

    Ron
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    So what else is new. Somehow I still break more targets with AA's-splits and all. It would be nice if Winchester got it together and improved their hulls!!
     
  11. EEB

    EEB Member

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    I had this happen this week loading new AA 20 gauge hulls. I've loaded a lot of 12s and never seen this happen before. Also, (I was using an old Versa-Mec) the priming rod kept getting stuck in the bottom of the hull requiring a firm tug to get it off. Never happens with any of the Remingtons.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    It's my thought that if I buy new shells, They are Remingtons or Federal "budget" shells. I have been "gifted" many thousands of the new AA hulls, so if they pass inspection, they get loaded. I shoot very few factory shells, since I have as much confidence in my reloads as I do in factory stuff. Gun Clubs seem to work well for me too. The Wally World Federals will get loaded once or twice and then tossed. They are the true throw away hull. Years ago, I did better with Remington RXP hulls or the old Win Compression formed hulls.

    I don;t have a problem with splits until after three or four loadings at the soonest. I toss them after five, or when I see the first defects.
     
  13. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    I loaded nothing but AAs in 12, 20, 28, & 410 from mid-1980s until early 2000...after they changed the hull structure from compression formed to the "new and improved" hulls. Gave up on them after all the reported problems and my own first-hand problems reloading them...splits and internal base looseness. Now reload Remington STS or Nitros exclusively...problems solved...and have never looked back. Best Regards, Ed
     
  14. TC

    TC TS Member

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    Splits down the side of a hull are usually the result of weakness in the "weld" or "knit line" of the hull as molded. This is a bad batch and should be limited to a specific lot.

    Small splits or "pin holes" in the crimp area are usually the result of excessive, deep crimps.

    I have new style AA hulls that have been loaded 15 to 20 times without splitting. Others that didn't make it that long.
     
  15. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    It seems the composition of the plastic makeup is very different from the old one piece hull. They seem to be more brittle. I have tried different setups to load them but always have the same problem with pinholes, splitting after 1or2 loadings.I still have a couple barrels of the old AA's and save those for my regular shoots. Must have loaded many of them 12 to 15 times. When I do throw them away its almost like taking an animal to the vet to have it put to sleep.

    I guess the change at winchester comes from these new modern day college bean counters that have been taught to maintain the bottom line instead of quality.
    I don't buy any of the new AA's anymore, switched to Remington and have no issues with sts, nitro's or gunclubs.
     
  16. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the new AA's will split, Fed will get splits at the crimp and the beloved Remingtons will shrivel up pucker up at the crimp end and turn black. take your pick.
     
  17. RAScott

    RAScott Member

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    Could you include a picture or two that would be helpfull. I have reloaded them many times, sounds like to deep a crimp because it also sounds like it is mushrooming at the end then it would be hard to put in chamber.

    Bob S
     
  18. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    I've had Red AAs start the pinpoint at the roll within 3 reloads. The grey AAs seem to go about 5-6 before cracks show at the roll as well. Winchesters also seem to throw bad crimps now and then. Remington hulls have caused no issues and I have several that are on 7-8 reloads. Spolar loader, Clays powder and either 1 1 1/8oz or 24g.

    Harold Hitchcock
     
  19. 1881home

    1881home TS Member

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    To b12, I think you have hit the nail right on the head! Winchester, back in the 70's or 80's, got rid of all their pro shooter reps and replaced them with a bunch of college kids that weren't sure witch end of the shotgun you put the shell in. I'm sure, like you, its a bean counting problem. Maybe if they had some shooter/employee's out hear, they would do a better job at the factory.

    To RAScott - I do not have a means of posting pictures on here, wish I did! The split that I am finding starts right where the roll is on the NEW shell and goes on into the crimp upon initial firing.

    Just so everyone understands, These are on brand new, once fired empties. Naturally, they do not appear on the brand new shell until after it is first fired. If its because of too deep a crimp, then the factory is crimping them too deep. My reloads are crimped between .055 and .060 thousands deep. This is the same as new Winchesters, Remingtons and Federals. I load on a PW 2000 and I load clays, 1 oz shot, and the Winchester pink 1oz. wad.

    The mushrooming at the end, on a reload, is only where the split is trying to open up and relieve the pressure on the crimp. Personally, I think its bad plastic, and only on recent new lots of ammo. I have once fired empties from about a year ago, and they are no problem (Winchesters). I guess that cheap plastic, or inferior plastic, could help their bottom line in the short run, but it will hurt them in the long haul.

    I sure thank all of you for your input and ideas. I guess we all will solve our problem, one way or another, with or without Winchester.
     
  20. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    I have been loading only Remington hulls for at least 15 years now, mostly green Premiers, and have never had a problem until recently. I have been shooting and reloading a lot of Nitros for games and prize shoots, and have been finding many that split down the side after 3 or 4 reloads.The split is right in the middle of the hull, not near the crimp, and there seem to be no warning signs beforehand. I inspect each hull before loading, and anything dicy looking gets thrown out, so it isn't that I am shooting squashed or bent hulls. I shoot a Cynergy, and have inspected the chamber for rough spots or anything that could be causing this problem, but can't find anything. Has anyone else found this on Nitros during their reloading and shooting?
     
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