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New Shooters and Chokes

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Had a new shooter ask me what choke I use and I said 'full'. He was using a more open choke, so we went to the patterning board and I showed him the difference between 'not-full' and full with his own gun. At 12 paces the full choke punched a nice hole in the cardboard. The other choke left a tight pattern, but did not punch a hole. The wads went off to the sides and punched their own holes elsewhere.

    So we went back to shooting and my new friend broke the best score of his life at 23. He says he's sticking with the full choke. Saw him again yesterday and he broke a 24, yet another new high for him.

    In the midst of all this he asks me why? Why is a full choke better? All I could say was - it's better feedback. When you hit that target with a nice tight pattern and get smoke, you sense it and it feels real good. If you're just wandering along with a more open choke, breaking targets into pieces it's not as much fun and you don't know where you're at. Maybe you hit the target with the edge of your pattern, maybe the middle, you can't tell which. It's relative, of course. Open the choke up even more and you get even less feedback.

    And with a full choke, if I'm getting pieces, I know it's time to get tighten things up some.

    What are your thoughts as to why? I think it's a human feedback thing.
     
  2. mallard2

    mallard2 Active Member

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    Always choke for smoke. Fuller the better.
     
  3. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    OK I'm going to semi hijack this thread. What's up with doing the patterning at 12 yards? 12 yards out is not where you are going to be looking to break the birds. 30 yards, 35 yards is more realistic. Why not set up your board at that distance and then you can see the actual size and configuration of your pattern when it's hitting the bird. You can tell the true difference of a mod from a full at shooting distance. The size of them at that range is not all that different, but the shot pattern is. the full has a distinct center with a concentration of shot there which will create a nice powdering of the clay when you get it in the center of the pattern. Bill
     
  4. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Because POI is far more important than pattern ...
     
  5. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Bob's got it. I wanted to check this shooters POI to be sure he didn't have problems there. He didn't. The pattern was nicely centered left-to-right and it was an inch or so high.

    The choke discussion paralled nicely so we went off on it. At 12 yards it's real easy so see differences in chokes. I don't have software to do the pattern analysis from further back.
     
  6. mich746

    mich746 Member

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    You can get the same pattern results using AA vs Rio, same choke. AA will leave a hole, Rio will leave a pattern @13 yards as you described. Do the same test/same choke with different ammo.

    Full or IM, 7 1/2 or 8, 1oz or 1 1/8oz? But I think we both know that your buddy breaking better scores had nothing to do with choke or load @16 yards, Probably a confidence thing, if it feels good do it.
     
  7. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    If showing him the difference in chokes has improved his confidence and upped his scores, that's valid and worth while. I contend it's the feedback while shooting that has helped. Same reason I use 7-1/2, 1-1/8 oz. I love smoked targets.

    I just hate it when guys come to me and complain that their scores never change. That's what happened here. So off we went looking for something to fix and bingo. His scores improved.

    This guy is bringing relatives and friends in - a hole squad worth for several rounds. Benefits everybody, the club and his crew.

    Smokify.
     
  8. mich746

    mich746 Member

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    Smokify: It's good he came to you and you were able to help him. Yeah, I kind of like smoke too but lately I have been liking 1oz of 8, even from the 20, but that's just me.
     
  9. SL900LOADER

    SL900LOADER Member

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    Ive been shooting for 6-7 years, I was told to use an I.M. choke, and i did for a while, then after chipping birds for a long while i got mad and went to a full and even an extra full, what do ya know...feed back! i soon could actualy tell where i was pointing, and i got smoke, i have never been comfortable going back to anything more open then a light full, all i do is start chipping them and seem to lose where im pointing the gun, after this i started asking good shooters next to me what size choke are you shooting, most everyone says full, i dont know what good a I.M. choke is good for now.
    i shoot 1oz, of #8's green dot and a green duster.
     
  10. jimsw

    jimsw Member

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    "Shoot any choke as long as it is full". Frank Little

    "Check the point of impact at 13-15 yards". Don't bother to pattern at 35 yards. Frank Little also.

    Break the target by pointing properly don't rely on an open choke it will make you a sloppy shooter.
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    You preach that chokes are the end all to shooting perfect scores. Shoot a Full and fill your score card with 100's. If you don't know where you are pointing your gun in the first place a choke isn't going to help. Breaking targets is what gives someone confidence, not what choke he is using.

    I will take a 100 chips everytime to beat 99 smokes. I happen to shoot a M at 16's and an IM at 26.5.

    Mr. Kuhn I would be interested in what your personal results have been using your full, i.e. registered scores.

    I am not trying to riducule you but caution you on your advice to the novice shooter. Because the shooter who breaks little or nothing will leave before he gets started.

    Don
     
  12. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Everyone should use a modified choke.

    Especially if they are shooting against me :)

    -Gary
     
  13. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    By the way, Leo Harrison III advises that everyone use a FULL choke, and if his credibility isn't good enough for you then click on Neil's test results and ask yourself how often you miss a bird 34 yards away by 0.8" or less.

    -Gary
     
  14. Redcobra

    Redcobra Active Member

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    I got a call from a bud the other day who wanted to shoot some trap. I had just left the SC course and had my SC gun with IC and LM chokes in it. Went and shot trap with it from the 16 using the IC and ran 24 (1 oz loads at 1290fps.) The one I missed i would have missed with any choke.Breaks were solid splats.

    I am beginning to think all this choke stuff is slightly overblown.
     
  15. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Thats is IF he shoots it at 34 yards or closer. Is the new shooter breaking rising targets, flat targets or dropping targets? The more he shoots, the faster he'll get, and he may need to change his POI on the way.

    I'm not saying what choke I shoot on singles, cause it doesn't matter.
     
  16. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    GW22 when you start pointing a gun like Leo then follow what he does.

    Don
     
  17. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    I'm not giving up my full choke, I'll tell you that. I wonder what choke Neil Winston uses when he steps up to the 16 yard line.
     
  18. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Don: A full choke is what Leo advises OTHERS to use -- especially new shooters. I believe his point is that it teaches the shooter how to properly point the shotgun and it inspires confidence because it gives a better indication of when you are center-punching the target.

    -Gary
     
  19. JGS

    JGS Member

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    Tom Wilkinson knows shotgun chokes better than most, and he usually supplies choke tubes in the neighborhood of .025 for 16 yard targets. Phil Kiner often says that shooters learn by breaking targets, not by missing them. I'm not sure using tight chokes best serves beginning shooters.
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    All choke constrictions aren't created equal. A friend has a 30" model 12 modified barrel that shot better from long distance than a lot of full chokes, pattern wise and bird breaking wise! If someone could have convinced him to change barrels, I mighta won more long distance shoot-offs with him!!

    Regardless of what the choke numbers read, a complete powder burn that matches that choke breaks targets mixed with pointing ability, not some magical measurement number.

    A nephew has a KS-5 Special that will put a lot of fulls to shame from 40-45 yards with his modified choke tube??

    Hap