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New Shooter vs. Seasoned Long time Shooter ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by biff, Dec 29, 2008.

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  1. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Which will benefit more from a clinic and why? Hope Mr. Kiner will respond on this also. Biff
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Experienced enough to know which end the bullet goes in...but not enough to be stubborn.
     
  3. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    Old saying, "Never too old to learn". Bigger improvement will/should be in the newer shooter. Old shooter will only probably pick up that last target or two they need to become what they want to be.
     
  4. berettaman7

    berettaman7 TS Member

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    A new shooter simply has less trash in his mind to work with, an old shooter just carries too much bagage and needs to "reprogram" himself.

    Berettamanu
     
  5. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    I have helped brand new and very old.

    And I am sure the other trap teachers will agree with me on this.

    The key is not whether you have shot a lot or a little. The key is whether you pay attention and are willing to try something different.

    Some guys come to a clinic and they don't want to change any thing at all-- they want you to tell them they are doing everything perfect, and then just sprinkle a little "pixie dust" on them and make their scores go up immediately.
     
  6. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Mr. Kiner, Let's step this up a notch and I address this to you, not to trip you up in any way but because you are generous enough to share some of your experience on here and have worked with many individuals of varying skill levels in your classes and also in your years of shooting.

    You are in the upper echelon of trap shooters, you are friends and have been around most of them for a long time. You have had an excellent opportunity to observe what it is that separates the top shooters from the rest and that they all seem to stay at that level. Is this an just an innate skill or did they get there from "Deliberate Practice"? It is not just great eyesight, muscle dexterity, and thousands of rounds shot, because many shooters have these attributes. Do you feel there is a potential level and when it is reached there is nothing that can be done to raise it? I think some people feel "There IS a Secret"!

    BTW, I have your DVD's and have watched you shoot. I am glad to see you on here with the troops and that you have been willing to try to improve this sport. If you are offended by this post or wish not to add to the discussion, just PM me and I will delete these questions. Biff
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    biff- I have know many top shooters in trap and pistol shooting. The key is rather simple. You have to dedicate your life to the sport. Shooting is first, everything else is second. You get home from a shoot late on Sunday evening. All day Monday you think about what you did wrong and how you could improve. You might have to go to a local club and work on a few things. On Tuesday, you pack up the car and leave for another shoot on Wednesday. During the five day shoot, you seriously concentrate on improving yourself. If you have a round of 25 where several targets were chipped, you tighten up a notch while walking to the next trap.

    I am simply not willing to pay the price to become a top shooter.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Biffer, most of us shoot targets by the bunch. A five, 25-50-100 and we think in those terms when on the line.

    The top shooters in all the shooting games think in one target events attacking each one individually no matter what it happens to be.

    New shooters are like sponges and will soak up information both good and bad. The old experienced hand only wants a quick fix for that one to two extras, IF, it fits in with his way of thinking or learning new techniques. There are several old sayings that are true and apply to your questions. "Never too old to learn." "You can sometimes learn from a dummy, but, only if your listening." "If you think you can or can't, you are probably correct." Maybe not exact quotes but close enough.

    Not everyone that happens to have the ability to do great things can teach others how it's done or how they do what they do. The ability to teach is a gift, just like the ability to perform is. Some can and some can't convey that knowledge in terms thats understandable. After watching Phils video, he's a gifted teacher and shooter in my book!

    Hap
     
  9. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    There are never any over night successes- they all have a tale of a long journey and a lot of hours of hard work.

    Long story short (this should evoke some reponses)-- The PAIN from losing is so strong that it makes the PAIN it takes to win worthwhile.
     
  10. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Phil, Pat and Hap thanks for responding and with good comments also!

    First Phil, I think the pain from losing is much stronger for the top level shooters because they expect to win and are expected to win! That is one of the main things which differentiates the top shooters from the majority of shooters who expect to lose! These other shooters feel there is no way they can compete with Kay, Harlan,Leo, you and all the others; they kinda expect to lose. Having the desire to win, putting in the effort to excell, and then expecting to win is necessary to get to where you are and to be the Best! Negative thoughts will surely help you miss, hanging out with people who like to tell you how they miss will also put those negative thoughts about missing in your mind! I'm sure you have worked very hard to get where you are and to stay there also; as I'm sure all the others do also! Biff
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Pat,

    After the shoot on Sunday you wake up Monday morning and think about all the things you did wrong. You are making a big mistake. When you wake up Monday morning you should think about all the things you did right. That is all you should think about, how to do things the right way.

    If you think about all the things you did wrong, you will get very good at doing things the wrong way. HMB
     
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