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New school prayer-This is a real shame to U.S

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Barrelbulge(Fl), Mar 7, 2008.

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  1. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    NEW School prayer
    :
    Now
    I sit me down in school
    Where praying is against the rule
    For this great nation under God
    Finds mention of Him very odd.

    If Scripture now the class recites,
    It violates the Bill of Rights.
    And anytime my head I bow it
    Becomes a Federal matter now.

    Our hair can be purple, orange or
    green,
    That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
    The law is specific, the law is precise.
    Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

    For praying in a public hall
    Might offend someone with no faith at all.
    In silence alone we mustmeditate,
    God's name is prohibited by the state.

    We're allowed to cuss and dress like
    freaks,
    And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
    They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
    To quote the Good Book makes meliable.
    We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
    And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
    It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
    We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.

    We can get our condoms and birth controls,
    Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
    But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
    No word of God must reach this crowd.

    It's scary here I must confess,
    When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
    So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
    Should I be shot; My soul please take!
    Amen
     
  2. sako2115

    sako2115 TS Member

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    Ah what don't you understand about the seperation of church and state? I do agree that the "freaks" give freedoms a workout, but that, in my opinion, keeps our beautiful Constitution strong. IMO, the right to believe also mandates the right not to believe. Sorry, not everybody in this country believes in a deity and that does not preclude their being competent, patriotic, clear-thinking Americans.
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As long as there are math tests there will always be prayer in school.
     
  4. sako2115

    sako2115 TS Member

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    And I also believe: Take two Americans, have one issue, there will be three opinions. We are usually so..."American"; was it not a bunch of angry younger men and women who started this noble experiment?
     
  5. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Most constitutional scholars agree that the framers did not intend for seperation of church and state, but for there not to be one national religion. If they wanted a true seperation, then the President and other elected officials would have been prohibited to be sworn in on a Bible. I realize that being sworn in on a Bible is not required, but again, if they truly wanted seperation they would have prohibited it.

    Most military postions have taken an oath since the Revolutionary War that included the line: So help me God. Agian, this does not reflect what kind of God, thus not imposing a national religion.

    Finally, the First Amendment states: Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibing the free exercise of;....

    Find me the law that states the seperation of Chruch and State....

    Wiki has a pretty good page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

    Finally if there were to be a true seperation, why is there a Red Mass?
     
  6. sako2115

    sako2115 TS Member

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    There is no law, but I believe no mandate for or against a view of a deity or religion. Therefore, I believe the government must not favor believers over non-believers in a deity in any situation.

    It's a fascinating topic; Constituional scholars out there? But this is trapshooters.com, not constitutionallawyers.com, and I am one of the first to forget that!!! Smoke 'em all everybody!!!
     
  7. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    In 1958, in a case called Baer v. Kolmorgen, Judge Gallagher was tired of hearing the phrase and wrote a dissent warning that if the court did not stop talking about the "separation of church and state" people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution.

    Awhile back I saw a survey and not surprisingly many serving in Congress actually think it is written in the Constitution.

    We solved it easily enough and didn’t let the State educate our 2 boys. Using college GPA along with their standardized testing scores we were successful. Unfortunately using any of the National testing norms as a metric that isn’t really any thing to brag about, it doesn’t take much.
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Good lord.

    It says:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

    Those words have been twisted, pulled, pushed and poked into a state way beyond the simple reading thereof.

    Can't have the Ten Commandments on the Court house wall.

    Can't have "God" in the Pledge.

    Soon the money will have God removed too.

    I don't see the word "Separation" anywhere.

    It's all right though.

    Just go with the flow. Euthanasia is just around the corner.

    HM
     
  9. bocephus

    bocephus Member

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    It is freedom "of" religion, to choose whatever religion we want, not freedom "from" religion as the liberals want us to believe. Our forefathers came here escape a state sponsored religion, to give us the freedom to choose whichever we believe in.

    God continues to be forced away from us, it won't be much longer and we will be on our own.........then the words "God help us all" will no longer be heard.
     
  10. sako2115

    sako2115 TS Member

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    You mean the "liberals" want to take G-d and relegion away from "us"? I think not. Just as some want and need religion and practice theroff, there are many that don't want to partake. Neither group, in my view, has any more right than the other to implement its agenda. I believe that religious practice or no religious practice is personal choice and not to be forced upon any person one way or another.
     
  11. K80433SC

    K80433SC Member

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    Could not agree with you more, on the issue of religion being a "personal" freedom. However -- let none of you bury your heads in the sand here, or on ANY of the other social, political or ethnicity concerns that plague our nation today.

    What was once established as acceptable ; normal ; even noble.........is being challenged at every turn.

    My real argument is this : I will allow your personal freedom of choice on any issue you choose to debate. If you do not want to bow your head and pray to GOD (whomever, or whatever you call GOD), or do not want to view the TEN COMMANDMENTS as the basis for all law and judgemment, or choose to not stand at attention with hand or hat over heart as the National Anthem is being played, OR would rather speak your native language over the Anglo version of speech that was carried over here upon the settlement of the United States of America -- something I cannot challenge for fear of violating YOUR culture.....

    ........this and many other things, I grant you.

    Just please stop holding my counterparts and I hostage to YOUR rights. Quit wasting time and millions of dollars (both precious resources) by bogging the courts with trivial lawsuits to guarantee YOUR rights, at the expense of mine.

    Please do not look at the TEN COMMANDMENTS that are displayed in public buildings. I assure you that I do not spend any time trying to read a Spanish billboard, either. Please exercise YOUR right to slouch your shoulders or wander about as the Star Spangled Banner is played. I also turn a glaring, uncaring shoulder as (yet) another immigrant baby is born to free healthcare, while senior citizens who have toiled their entire lives and paid taxes cannot even afford the medications necessary to their survival.

    And finally -- please give yourselves a healthy "pat on the back". Somehow - you have managed to convince a large segment of the American population that YOUR rights and YOUR beliefs hold more weight than fundamentals and principles that have been in place for generations. Heck...........there are those who will even argue your position for you.

    To those who condemn the posting of topics or comments not directly related to trapshooting, I offer MY opinion -- which is also guaranteed : Firearm owners and clay target shooters tend to be a conservative lot. We are passionate in our convictions, and are apt to resist any challenges to excellence, virtue or morality. Personally..........it disgusts and infuriates me to watch the degredation of social fiber, along with the complacency and acceptance toward its demise.

    I expect this from the "entitlement" mentality. I would not expect it from such a large fraction of those who visit here............
     
  12. uplate

    uplate TS Member

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    Those who "choose to believe", continue to associate non belief with all things
    evil and anti American. I have never seen a self proclaimed Christian that
    could understand that non belief in a creator is just non belief, nothing more.
     
  13. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Religion begins at home, with mom and dad. You are still allowed to pray at home and go to church on Sunday. We do.


    Schools teach about each of the major religions of the world in a historical context.


    We made the financial sacrifice to raise our daughter in a private Christian school through 12th grade and it was the best money we ever spent. I drove a Ford van 23 years and my wife drove a Chevy station wagon 18 years. The paint fell off of each but our daughter graduated at 22 years of age with a master’s degree.


    She is on her own now and has become a wonderful adult. She goes to church on Sunday and is well rounded in the bible.


    If you would visit a classroom today, many of you would be surprised at the diversity of students and religions. There is no “one size fits all” religion any more. Many young girls wear the veil indicating followers of Islam. In our school system of over 97,000 students, we probably have over 50 nationalities represented.


    We say the pledge every morning and “Under God” is still there.


    Brian is correct about the power of prayer on math tests.


    Ed Ward
     
  14. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    There is a difference in "God" and "religion". It is possible to believe in a God and not believe/subscribe to a religion. The Ten Commandments are part of a religion and nothing more. This country was founded by people who believed in God but not in religions that tried to control public life. "Religion is the opiate of the masses". It is the force feeding of religious beliefs that many of us object to, not God. All through history people have hidden behind religion to justify conquest, greed, and inhumanity. Catholics vs Protestants in Ireland, Sunni vs Shiites in Iraq, the list is endless of mans inhumanity to his fellow man in the name of religion. And yes I do say the pledge of allegiance just please don't expect me to subscribe to your particular religion. I hope I have not offended anyone, that is not my intention.
     
  15. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    There is an old prayer that goes something like this.

    Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.

    Ed Ward
     
  16. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    A little know fact. PRESIDEN George Washington was a very religous person.
    When General George Washington was fighting for our freedom and most everyone else give up except for a few stragglers left. Washington took a walk in the woods to be by himself. When he reached his area in the woods he thought he was alone but he was not. Their was a British officer that was trying to spy on the americans encampment and look over their strength. He had by accident came upon Washington in the woods and saw him praying. The officer overhead his prayer and was so moved by the words that he did not try to kill or take Washington captive. When the British officer arrived back at his camp and reported to his superiours he stated whom he saw and the words Washington said in his prayer. He told his general that with the belief Washington had in his men and god that we the British have not a chance of winning the revoultion.

    I say this now. I am not a bible thumper and some would probably say not a reglious person but I do believe. Their are three things I truly believe in and that is God, President Washington, and my family. I will fight to the end for the common sense that they give us under the American flag.

    Their is not many books that will state this fact about Washington but it is true. Bill
     
  17. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    K80433sc, That was excellent. Uplate,I happen to beleive, although I am not affiliated with any religon an do not go to any services. You don't need a church to talk to God. On the other side of the coin I have a daughter that is an athiest, she does not beleive. I have no problem with her or anyone else not beleiving, that is their choice.

    I really didn't think this thread would get a little heated so I only used a #4/0 hook. Have a good day everyone whether you beleive or not. Mike.
     
  18. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    If liberals were simply content with NOT being forced to participate in a relgion or beleif in God, I could accept that, but the TRUTH is they want to forbid ANY reference to God in Schools by ANYONE at ANY time. Liberals are rabid God haters who screem for RIGHTS while denying others theirs. They would deny a sudents right to ANY religious expression at ANY time under ANY circumstances. They screem about the seperation of church and state in the constitution, when in fact NO words of this were EVER written in it. If any dirt bag liberal can show me those words in the Constitution, I will eat the document in front of them! What IS said is that "Congress"(did you get that) ? "Congress" shall make no law establishing a religion or INTERFER with the FREE PRACTICE THEREOFF. I guess the liberals MISSED that part! Day after day some idiot school offical does something like trying to forbid a student from bringing their Bible to school, tell a group of teachers they can have prayer(even away from students on their on time), and many other repressive things that violate their constitutionally protected religious freedoms. Some schools have gone so far as to madate learning secessions about ISLAM! Can you imagine what the liberals would do if that was done fo christian beleifs?!! Liberals seem to beleive that even though their left wing beliefs are in the minority that THEY should have TOTAL control in pubic schools, even though they are the MINORITY in tax revenue. I have a news flash for them. THEY DON'T OWN the schools. There isn't a day that goes by that I am not reminded that liberals are the biggest hypocrits that ever lived, and the biggest threat to America that ever existed!
     
  19. sako2115

    sako2115 TS Member

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    Deckart, you articulate my views exactly and with much more elan. Kudos, this Bud's for you. By the way, I am retired from public education. I never saw students asked not to bring a bible, or teachers told that they cannot have voluntary prayer sessions. As a consultant, I often was sent to parochial schools to provide services that the parents of children attending had paid for anyway. One would think that there was a conflict here; with the state assisting a relgious school. No conflict, think it through. The parents had paid for the services anyway!! You may ask where this policy was in place: The State of California.

    I believe that conservatives see liberals as the "boogeyman" that will take their children away, attack some religious views, and favor relgions that are perpetrated to harm us. And I believe that liberals see conservatives as the "boogeyman" that is cruel, selfish, and will never lend a helping hand. 'Tis a pity we have reached this point in our great nation; perhaps both groups would do well to get to know each other better...perhaps at a Unitarian Church where tolerance of diversity would help make such interaction civil and productive for both sides. And I've never gone to any church or temple for services, btw, just heard some positive things about the Unitarian viewpoint.
     
  20. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Quick. Someone make up another story about Washington or Jefferson or Lincoln or some other famous early American. I love made up stories. Jake
     
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