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New Remington 1100 Quality

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Darth Vader, Dec 22, 2009.

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  1. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader TS Member

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    I wanted to buy my wife a new 1100 Classic Trap but I have been hearing a lot of bad things about Remington quality control lately. What is going on with Remington? Can any of you folks enlighten me on this situation? I always thought 870's and 1100's were fantastic guns before hearing about all this. thanks for any info you can offer.
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The 1100s are made decently, but not with the care that they once were. The machining is not as smooth. The actions used to be glass smooth. The forcing cones are not polished. The blueing wears more easily. On the other hand, for the Trap model, the wood is nicer than it used to be and is cut checkered. And the choke tubes are properly installed, after Remington spent over a million dollars installing new choke tube cutting equipment for barrels.

    Frankly, myself, I'd rather get a decent used 1187 step rib factory backbored Trap gun. It's a better setup at less cost.
     
  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Annie,

    If your wife is a recreational shooter and shoots 200 rds a week or less, the new classic trap will be just fine. They tend to smooth out after a couple of hundred rounds.

    The gold bird on the receiver adds a little bling.

    ss
     
  4. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Marlon. The 11-87 needs a realease trigger jsut like you.

    Personally, it is all up to you and how you maintanin them. But Like Brian, I think the 11-87, step rib, CT was the very best they ever made. Adn yet, my 1100 fixed FC is my personal choice.

    ask me if I have one for sale...
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I shoot both an 1100 TB step rib fixed full choke, circa 1980, and an 11/87 step rib over bored choke tube, circa 1987. Both guns are highly reliable when kept clean. They absolutely smoke targets.

    I believe that the 11/87 has a slight edge in increased reliability based on the fact that it has a larger extractor and a stainless steel magazine tube. It also has a metal support for the fore end that the 1100 does not have.

    Years ago, I asked a gunsmith friend who is listed as a registered Remington warranty gunsmith if the 11/87 would wear quicker that the 1100. This was a myth that was circulating at the time.

    The gunsmith said that the 11/87 should be the more durable gun. He also said that the source of the myth was that an 1100 left uncleaned would stop shooting far sooner than an 11/87. The 11/87 would go on and on without cleaning until the rings that transferred the gas energy to the action bars fractured or that some other internal part broke.

    Bottom line, clean an 1100 or an 11/87 every 300-500 rounds and they will last a long time.

    Also, the 11/87 trap model is not pressure compensated for heavy loads. You have to use target grade ammunition which means that shells cannot exceed a 3 1/4 - 1 1/4 pigeon load.

    3 3/4 - 1 1/4 oz and/or higher loads will turn an 11/87 trap model to junk.

    My 11/87 loves 1 oz 1180 fps loads and IMO is about as close to no recoil as you can get.

    Ed Ward
     
  6. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    <a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/palletjack_2006/?action=view&current=StarRemsbuttgun.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Both for sale
     
  7. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    I bought my 1100 Classic Trap, new, in Dec. 2005, it has a Sept. 2005 date code on the barrel. I generally go 800 rounds between gas system/action cleanings, shooting reloads using 700X. The gun would go longer than that with my reloads.

    I have had no failures to fire.

    For me, it shoots a 60/40 POI with no left/right deviation. I have shot 60/40 or 70/30 guns for 40 years, so I am used to this POI.

    I shoot other guns besides it but I do have 15,000+ rounds through it, trouble free; it is even on the original O ring, which shows no signs of failing.

    My 2005 1100CT is better fit and finished than the Sept. 1976 date coded 870TB that I bought, new, in Dec 1976.

    I have been very pleased with my 1100CT, Now I am on the wrong side of 55 and I appreciate the low felt recoil. The typical Remington m/c trap stocks fit me pretty much like they were custom made for me, I shoot my conistant best scores with this gun.
     
  8. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Rem870... Outstanding post. One of the best I have ever seen. Good shot.

    Jack
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There is no quality or reliability difference between the 1100 and 1187. The two are basically the same gun. The only real differences are that the 1187 for field models has a gas compensating system and a stainless steel magazine tube.

    The gas compensating system is utter simplicity. The "barrel hanger" has two extra gas ports that vent to atmosphere, but are held in check by a spring band. These springs cut off gas low for light loads, and the gas system acts exactly like a 2-3/4" 1100. If heavy or magnum loads are used, the spring bands on the compensating ports lift up and discharge excessive gas. It's a system that works very well. As far as the 1187 trap models go, this compensating system is not used. The 1187 trap model is very close to an 1100 trap model.

    The stainless steel magazine tube was used on the 1187 mainly because they were designed as field guns and the purpose was to prevent rust. The 1100 still uses a blued carbon steel tube. It has been said that the stainless tubes can crack or work loose after tens of thousands of rounds are fired. Very few people have ever said this personally happened to them. Myself, I don't worry about it.

    Interestingly, the current 1100 Classic Trap is a hybrid 1100/1187. The gas system and magazine tube are from the 1100. The bolt is an 1187, which has a larger (thicker) extractor and a better buffer. *SOME* early 1100 barrels may not have the extractor slot wide enough for these newer bolts. However, that is an easy fix. Both sides of the extractor slot are slightly widened with a file for clearance.

    I believe the 1187 is *slightly* softer shooting than a 2-3/4" 1100, including the 1100 trap. However, the softest shootiing setup is the 1100 Magnum model with an 1100 trap barrel. This is because the 1100 magnum model has a heavier action sleeve (the round cylinder that wraps around the mag tube). This provides more recoil impulse dampening and kinetic energy storage, resulting in softer recoil. The same thing can be accomplished by retrofitting a magnum action sleeve onto a regular 2-3/4" 1100.

    My main reason for preferring the 1187 Trap is that it has the factory backbored barrel, which performs exactly as Remington says it does. It concentrates a bit more shot in the core of the pattern. It's also a step rib barrel, and it uses interchangeable choke tubes. At the time it also had cut checkering, while its 1100 predecessors had pressed checkering. That's a moot point now, since the Classic Trap has nice wood. In fact, it's basically the 1187 wood, since the forend retention system is the same between the new 1100 Classic Trap and the 1187.

    One other thing... There are no "bad" 1100 or 1187 trap models. All have their pluses and minuses. Earlier guns are smoother and made better, later guns have better wood and checkering, and the 1187 had one of the better barrels (the real treasure is the factory backbored 1100 barrel with a fixed choke, but they're not often seen for sale).
     
  10. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Brian...well stated!!

    Curt
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe that Remington offers any step-rib barrels today. I tried to buy a "Target" barrel a few years ago and wanted a .745" bore job like the one on my 870. A Remington employee guaged barrels in their inventory for me and the closest he could come was .730" and none had stepped ribs.

    Ed
     
  12. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    My references indicate the overbore barrels started in 1988.

    I do not have a good reference on this but I think the 11-87 trap guns were replaced by the 1100 Classic Trap in 2000, if that is correct, that would mean the 11-87 overbore barrels were last made arround 1999.

    I do not reacall a factory, overbore barrel on any trap 1100 in the past 40 years (but my memory has been proven faulty on too many occasions).

    My wife's 1100TA, made in 1984, has a step rib but has the fixed full choke .727" bore which is typical from back then.

    I did miss one thing. As pointed out in otther posts, the current 1100 Classic Trap uses the thicker extractor, same as the 11-87.
     
  13. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    Good stuff Brian. I never knew how gases were bled off from magnum loads. I just looked on my 11-87 and saw the ring you were talking about. My Mossberg 930 has a spring in a chamber over the piston to bleed off excess gas. I shot it once when the spring was so loose it wasn't functioning. Talk about a difference in recoil. Bleeding off gas from a magnum shell makes a big difference in recoil and wear on a gun.
     
  14. soup

    soup Member

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    FOLKS ,

    I have a factory 1187 PREMIER TRAP 30" fixed full . As stated the guns come with really nice wood & I needed an adjustable comb so I bought a Jack West stock . The bore on my barrel is.747 and the choke is .702 = .45 restriction. I have never had any work done to the barrel & I bought it from a fellow shooter on this site who also did nothing to it . I have also added a Timmney adjustable trigger. Now I'm trying to figure out how to hit the first target in doubles with it-the second one is easy !

    BILL
     
  15. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Brian is very familiar with the Remmy gaspipe. The hot setup is indeed the magnum receiver with the trap barrel.

    The older 11/87 Trap with overbored barrel is perhaps the best of the lot.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    BTW, the factory backbored trap barrel is not a good barrel for sporting clays. The problem is that it will never have a pattern more open than modified. The reason for this is that the bore is ~.745", and tapers down ahead of the choke tubes to ~.727", giving a built in, permanent restriction of .018".

    The choke tubes for this barrel physically are the same as any other Rem Choke. The difference is in how they are marked. If you tried to use regular Rem Chokes in these factory backbored barrels, you'd have to add the built in constriction of .018" to the choke constriction. In other words, if you screwed in a cylinder bore choke tube of .000" constriction, the resulting constriction would be .018". If you screwed in a mod choke of .018" constriction, then you'd have to add the built in constriction of .018" to that, resulting in a total of .036" constriction, which is a full. The three choke tubes that came with the factory backbored barrel are (and are marked as):

    Trap Full - This is actually a cylinder bore choke and uses only the built in barrel constriction. See my math example above.

    Trap Extra Full. This is actually a mod choke, but when added to the built in barrel constriction provides a full choke. See the other math example above.

    Trap Super Full - This is actually a nornal full choke of .037" and when added to a the built in constriction of .018" becomes .055".

    These choke tubes are marked in this manner to prevent having to do the math, and because they are unique to this barrel.

    The Classic Trap has uniquely marked choke tubes as well, but the barrel does not have any built in constriction. The tubes for it are marked Singles, Mid Handicap and Long Handicap. I don't have the specs handy and Remington has redone their website, for the worse. A lot of info is now lacking there.

    OK, what is the purpose of the Remington factory backbored barrel? It's stated purpose was to shift pellets from the outer part of the pattern to the core. The Super Full Trap choke is supposed to put 75% of the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards, but enough pellets are shifted to put 50% of the pellets into a 21" circle of that pattern. From the patterning I've done, it appears to do that. A better comparison would be the Trap Extra Full (.036" total) compared to a normal Full (.036"). The regular Full choke has a fairly even pellet distribution though most of the 30" circle. The Trap Full for the backbored barrel has noticeably more pellet density in the core of the pattern. This would be in effect acting as if you went to the next choke size up in a normal barrel, but giving an "insurance" pattern around the more dense core.

    Be that as it may, I think the real benefit is that there is less pellet distortion going through the choke tube. The barrel opens up and when the pellets are squeezed back down, they aren't squeezed as much as they are in a conventional barrel and choke. This means flat spots on the pellets are greatly reduced or eliminated, and the pattern is improved. I shoot cheap promotional loads, which out of a regular barrel tend to get less than ideal pattern density because the shot is soft and distorts easily. This is why trap shooters like hardened shot, to reduce pellet distortion in tight chokes and improve patterns. But in the backbored barrel, I'm getting decent quality patterns with soft shot. This saves me a pile of money because I don't have to buy the premium shells. Now if premium shells are used, the patterns are even better than premium shot in a regular barrel.

    I mentioned sporting clays not being a good idea with this backbored barrel. Again, that's because you can never get a pattern more open than a mod out of it. Also, this barrel is a bit on the heavy side for sporting clays. So for that sport I put in a regular 28" light contour field barrel, which handles better and can get up to cylinder and even spreader choke patterns. (And no, spreader chokes do not open up more in the backbored barrel - I tried that.)
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    BTW, the factory backbored trap barrel is not a good barrel for sporting clays. The problem is that it will never have a pattern more open than modified. The reason for this is that the bore is ~.745", and tapers down ahead of the choke tubes to ~.727", giving a built in, permanent restriction of .018".

    The choke tubes for this barrel physically are the same as any other Rem Choke. The difference is in how they are marked. If you tried to use regular Rem Chokes in these factory backbored barrels, you'd have to add the built in constriction of .018" to the choke constriction. In other words, if you screwed in a cylinder bore choke tube of .000" constriction, the resulting constriction would be .018". If you screwed in a mod choke of .018" constriction, then you'd have to add the built in constriction of .018" to that, resulting in a total of .036" constriction, which is a full. The three choke tubes that came with the factory backbored barrel are (and are marked as):

    Trap Full - This is actually a cylinder bore choke and uses only the built in barrel constriction. See my math example above.

    Trap Extra Full. This is actually a mod choke, but when added to the built in barrel constriction provides a full choke. See the other math example above.

    Trap Super Full - This is actually a nornal full choke of .037" and when added to a the built in constriction of .018" becomes .055".

    These choke tubes are marked in this manner to prevent having to do the math, and because they are unique to this barrel.

    The Classic Trap has uniquely marked choke tubes as well, but the barrel does not have any built in constriction. The tubes for it are marked Singles, Mid Handicap and Long Handicap. I don't have the specs handy and Remington has redone their website, for the worse. A lot of info is now lacking there.

    OK, what is the purpose of the Remington factory backbored barrel? It's stated purpose was to shift pellets from the outer part of the pattern to the core. The Super Full Trap choke is supposed to put 75% of the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards, but enough pellets are shifted to put 50% of the pellets into a 21" circle of that pattern. From the patterning I've done, it appears to do that. A better comparison would be the Trap Extra Full (.036" total) compared to a normal Full (.036"). The regular Full choke has a fairly even pellet distribution though most of the 30" circle. The Trap Full for the backbored barrel has noticeably more pellet density in the core of the pattern. This would be in effect acting as if you went to the next choke size up in a normal barrel, but giving an "insurance" pattern around the more dense core.

    Be that as it may, I think the real benefit is that there is less pellet distortion going through the choke tube. The barrel opens up and when the pellets are squeezed back down, they aren't squeezed as much as they are in a conventional barrel and choke. This means flat spots on the pellets are greatly reduced or eliminated, and the pattern is improved. I shoot cheap promotional loads, which out of a regular barrel tend to get less than ideal pattern density because the shot is soft and distorts easily. This is why trap shooters like hardened shot, to reduce pellet distortion in tight chokes and improve patterns. But in the backbored barrel, I'm getting decent quality patterns with soft shot. This saves me a pile of money because I don't have to buy the premium shells. Now if premium shells are used, the patterns are even better than premium shot in a regular barrel.

    I mentioned sporting clays not being a good idea with this backbored barrel. Again, that's because you can never get a pattern more open than a mod out of it. Also, this barrel is a bit on the heavy side for sporting clays. So for that sport I put in a regular 28" light contour field barrel, which handles better and can get up to cylinder and even spreader choke patterns. (And no, spreader chokes do not open up more in the backbored barrel - I tried that.)
     
  18. Robbie T

    Robbie T TS Member

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    You guys are making me want to go and buy a Remington :)
     
  19. smac61

    smac61 TS Member

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    Brian,

    I have an 1100 Classic Trap that I've been trying to find nice wood for. Are you saying I need to be looking at 1187 wood? (if I cant find actual CT wood)

    I'm going to use it for sporting clays and hunting so I don't need to find a CT Monte Carlo, but I would like wood just as as nice if possible. I was thinking of just buying a Sporting 12 set...

    Thanks,
    Sean
     
  20. jm1079

    jm1079 Well-Known Member

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    May I ask if the 1100 Classic Trap uses a regular barrel or a light contour? Thanks. JM
     
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