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New load bad crimps, help please.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Sargon, Aug 14, 2009.

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  1. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    Here is the set up 1. P/W progressive loader, 2. 17.2 grains of clays, 3. DR XXL 7/8 wad. I am trying to get a 1200 fps 7/8 oz load. Some of the crimps look fine other are bulging out. I am thinking too much wad pressure but not sure. Unlike a Mec there is no way of gauging the wad psi. I assume you retract the thing that seats the wad but not sure. It loads a great 1 oz load, crimps are great.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  2. STOS

    STOS Member

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    Mike you will need to bring your wad ram up about 2 turns.
     
  3. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    I will give that a try. Can you ever not have enought wad psi? I have been told that you want ZERO wad psi for Clays loads.

    Thanks
     
  4. STOS

    STOS Member

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    As long as the wad is seated tight on top of the powder is all that is needed.
     
  5. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time when your crimps are bulging open, you have too many ingrediants. Try a 1 oz wad.
     
  6. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Mike what hull are you using? If AAHS then the most likely problem is that the bottom of the wad is hanging up on the base wad of the hull. The DR XXL has a very thick square edged bottom that makes this more common. There are 2 ways to go use Remington hulls or switch to the grey 7/8oz claybuster wad CB078-12 or the new 7/8oz clearduster wad. Expect more wad fouling with the claybuster but they shoot well.
    I use 16.7 of Clays in the Remington hull with the grey claybuster and CCI 209s for about 1220fps.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  7. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    I am using STS hulls. I moved the wad ram up. Don’t have time to fire the beast up tonight but will try over the weekend. It is hard to judge where the ram is seating the wad on the P/W.

    I have been told Clays makes a great 7/8 oz powder. I was hoping that either 17.2 or 17.9 would load well with what I am using.

    I should not be over stuffing the hull with components I am using.
     
  8. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Mike The top of the wad petals should be just below the roll line on the hull. You should be able to see this with a flashlight at the wad seating station adjust the wad ram accordingly.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  9. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    I will do that next time I load. Thanks, everyone for your advice.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    As Rick advised, use a one-ounce wad. Maybe, as you say, you should not be overstuffing the hull, but the crimps are telling you that you are. All more wad pressure will do is hide your problem until you open up a box on the shooting line in a month or two.

    A WW pink wad, a green Tgt-12 Remington and probably all the "clones" of both will fix your problem, I think. IF the weight of powder you think you are dropping is actually what's happening! (That's worth checking one more time too,) You might as well weigh your shot too. If both are where you expect, then it's time to change wads.

    Neil
     
  11. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong but if I have too much wad psi isn’t it possible that it is causing the wads to shoot up higher than normal causing a protruded crimp?

    My 1 oz loads with DR XL1's have a slightly dished in crimp so I am thinking they would not work for the 7/8. I do have some tgt and claybuster clones of the Winchester pinks. I will try both of them and see what shakes.

    I am just disappointed that I just bought the XXL 1's and they are not working.
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    We need to understand your terms. Sargon, "Wad Pressure" is how much pressure you've used to press the wad down into the hull - it has nothing to do with "causing the wads to shoot up higher" whatever that means. It has nothing to do with the crimp if the wad is seated and that only requires 10 lbs of pressure; seating the wad over the powder firmly. If you apply more pressure (perhaps excessive) all you're doing is crushing the wad and it may or may not resume it's original shape later.

    Your 7/8 oz load described SHOULD work just fine in STS shells with the WW 12L or the CB clone of same or the DR XXL pink wad as I've proven on my own bench. Again, triple check your powder and shot drop weights and make adjustments to end up with a crimp the thickness of a dime and relatively flat.....Bob Dodd
     
  13. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    If you don't have the instruction book, stick the eraser end of a pencil up through the hole underneath the shell and lower the wad ram till you can't wiggle the shell anymore. That is all the pressure you need,ever.
     
  14. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    Bob, I have been under the impression that a 'blossoming" shell can be caused by excessive wad psi. I assume what is happening is that the wad is "recoiling" up as a result of being forced down to hard. I can’t prove it but it makes sense to me.

    I weighed every thing, 17.4 grains of clay and the shot was 1/10 higher than what 7/8 comes out to. I adjusted the wad guide to place the wad just below the fold in the hull like someone recommended. It seem the shot is above the shot cup slightly. After jacking with this I have come to the conclusion the DR XXL are too long for my set up. They may work fine for others and nothing against DR but simply will not work given my equipment and limited abilities.

    If I load anymore 7/8 loads I will try another wad until then back to my trusty 1 oz loads.

    Thank to all for you help, it is greatly appreciated.
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The key here is probably the wad. I've had all sorts of trouble getting consistent crimps with the XXL series using 7/8 oz loads. I use a different wad and have no trouble. I tried tweaking two different presses to get the XXL wads to work and I never did get it to a point that was to my satisfaction. Many people use these wads and like them. I just don't think I needed to waste any more time tweaking when using a different wad solved the problem. Too much wad pressure might cause a dished in crimp, but a bulged crimp is usually too much of something or improper components. Could also be hulls that have weakened in the crimp area.
     
  16. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    What wad are you using Quack Shot?
     
  17. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    try the 1 oz wad as suggested, wad column is too high.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Sargon,

    I use the Federal 12S0 or Claybuster CB2100-12 clone for many 7/8 oz loads in the tapered hulls. The gray Winchester WAA12L or clone has worked well too. The 12S0 seems to give the tighter patterns and it stands up at higher velocities well. I've gone over 1300 fps with no pattern issues. Those Downrange XXL series are a hit and miss proposition, both pink and orange. They just never seemed to work for a 7/8 oz load for me. It's an interesting concept, but I don't think I need to waste a lot of time trying to make it work. There are just too many other solutions that work right out of the box. You could call Kevin Lewis at Downrange. I'm sure he could get you dialed in with the XXL if anyone could.
     
  19. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I gave my XXL wads away



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  20. Sargon

    Sargon TS Member

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    I will be doing the same Gary. I simply can not get them to work.
     
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