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NEL WINSTON - TARGET YEAR

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by trpshtr35, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. trpshtr35

    trpshtr35 TS Member

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    Good idea,as it is now. lots of labor day shoots are in 2 differnt years
     
  2. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    trpshtr36 - That is not the case. Any shoot that starts prior to August 31st and end after Sept. 1st is considered at shoot in the target year starting September 1st.
     
  3. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    I think having a fixed date is better than having one that will change from year to year. Also, the ATA staff may need some time to reconcile the data of the current target year and gear up for the next.

    Jason
     
  4. TOOT

    TOOT TS Member

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    B. TARGET YEAR
    The target year runs from September 1 thru August 31. Scores shot at any tournament ending after August 31, regardless of starting date, will be included in the following year’s averages.

    So the Western Grand starts on 8/30 with the preliminaries ending on 9/01. Then the finals 9/02 and 9/03.
    Does that mean all the preliminary targets on 8/30 and 8/31 will be in 2008 target year?
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I am not sure moving the target year two weeks earlier than it now ends would make much difference. Beginning a new target year on the first of a calendar month seems logical to me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Toot,

    I would say yes, if the prelim events are part of the tournament, ie Events 1,2 & 3 are shot on 8/30 and the final events are shot 9/1 or later.

    Jason
     
  7. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Who is NEL WINSTON? Is he any relation to Neil Winston?
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Nel is Neil's evil twin sister.
     
  9. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Must be lots of free time now that the grand is going on. People gotta find all sorts of things to complain about.

    What is wrong with things the way thy are? Do they present a problem? None that I know off. Maybe the heat is getting to some people.

    My main question is, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT THE WAY IT IS"? Why does it have to be changed to suit you? Did you not know when the target year ended when you joined up with this outfit?
     
  10. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Maybe everyone that shoots wants a 2 week "vacation" after the Grand? ;-)

    I agree with BIG PAPA, the two weekends of shoots after the Grand seem to be poorly attended (why add targets on after the Grand if they're not going to count for the new target year?).

    I guess having the 1st of September is easy to remember. (a poem)

    Oh well. Whatever.
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    BIG PAPA you said "If the GRAND is over, then you start your new target year the next day." On what Calendar do I find that date posted I have checked all the Calendars I have and can not find the Day After the Grand posted but I can find Sept. 1,

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    There are a couple of reasons for the change. One is to give shooters one last chance for some good-weather targets to get on a state team or boost their All-American position a bit.

    The second is that Grand Cleanup (record wise), All-American calculations, target-year closing and the attendant checking, corrections, and phonecalls lead to a payroll increase of $10,000 which could be saved if the work were spread out over a more reasonable time and overtime and added staff could be reduced.

    Penalty-target problems? First, I'd recommend state officials read the "white paper" I wrote about penalty which is in the minutes of the 2006 BOD meeting, available on the ATA website. If there is any interest, I'll post it here.

    When the states or clubs design their penalty system, they have to have a plan, a reason, and that will be different in different circumstances. "Why are they doing it?" might be the best place to start. The Central Zone has penalty for doubles if you don't have 200 doubles targets this year. I'd like to hear why that makes any sense!

    And in any case, the cost of shells and components should have an influence on their plans. And it would start next year anyway, so there's lots of time to work out a plan which will work.

    As for the date change I don't much care from a shooting perspective but why not save ten grand and drive the office staff a little less hard if it makes little difference.

    Neil
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- I stand by my position that the change is designed to help the clerical staff and will put a burden on some shooters. If you are looking at ways to reduce the office expenses, a quick superficial glance will show how to save much more than $10,000 you mentioned. One large expense, recording scores, was estimated by John N. to cost us nearly $1 per shooter per 300 target shoot (his estimate, not mine). I presented a sound plan that would accomplish the same task much faster at a cost of 2.3 cents per shooter. This was followed by a second business plan, that would keep all of the jobs in the USA and cost us around 25 cents per shooter. We are paying rather high salaries with many benefits to some who are preforming a job that could easily be done by part time high school girls working after school. If a credit card company or a banking clearing house, or even the US Postal Service, can enter more data per minute at a lower cost than we now can, perhaps we should look at how they do it. If we restrict our view to bank clearing houses and credit card companies, the error rate is much lower than ours.

    After that study, looking at ways the gun clubs now submit data is the next logical step toward operation of an efficient office.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. JAC1

    JAC1 Member

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    As I see it the main purpose of the ATA is to make decisions that serve the best interest of the shooter, not necessarily the best interest of ATA office staff. The way things are currently, we essentially have a two week “dead zone” from the end of the Grand to the start of the new target year. Many clubs do not schedule shoots during this time because a lot of shooters will not attend, choosing to wait for the new target year to spend their shooting dollar. This time of year is prime shooting weather and the ATA should do everything it can to encourage more shooting. The Cardinal Center is having their Cardinal Classic from August 22 – 26. This is a shoot I would attend if it were in the new target year. I am choosing not to because the time, money and effort expended on the thousand or so targets will count for absolutely nothing for the new target year.

    Just one man’s opinion.

    Jim Courtwright
     
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