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Neil Winston can you help us on this one.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Rio, Oct 15, 2007.

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  1. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    Neil;
    As our president and officer of the ATA I would like you too call a meeting of the board of directors and make a motion at this meeting too reduce the target requirement for all of the state shoots that would be held after Jan. 1 2008. The new requirements would be for 500, 16 yard tagets , 500 hundred handicap tagets and 600 pairs for doubles.In oother words the ATA would be setting the requirements for the state shoots, not the state associations. The reason for this motion is because of the rising cost of shoot and shells. This would only be for 2008 so the attendance of the state shoots would not drop too a danger level.

    Thanks
    Rio
     
  2. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Just my guess here, RIO, I believe you should be petitioning your state association. If your looking to the ATA to regulate state shoot minimums, I think your barking up the wrong tree.







    Jim
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Rio- Calling a special meeting can be both cumbersome and expensive if the delegates are required to attend in person rather than a telephone meeting. Also, I could not support the National organization infringing on the privileges now enjoyed by the individual states. Southerns frequently have strong feelings about retaining the rights and obligations of states.

    You could make a strong case for this change with your state organization. The costs this year and the target year change next year each offer support for such a change. A real question that should be asked is how many targets are required for proper classification at a state shoot?

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    I would say that if you can't afford to shoot the minimums and support your local clubs, you really can't afford to go to your state shoot and take up space on the line, to boot.
     
  5. FPBristol

    FPBristol TS Member

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    Why not just go to the international trap standard of 3/4 ounce loads and save money that way?
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Rio, state organizations are now beginning to hold their winter meetings and I think you should contact your own about this. The ATA won't ever make such a rule, since the diversity of local requirement, date of shoots, and so on make it a question best handled locally to match what's needed there rather than nationally for all.

    Your suggestion would raise the requirement in Minnesota, after all, and include a whole lot of category shooters we don't even worry about. It works for us.

    Neil
     
  7. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    this is a subject that is very close to me. I hate to classify people and hand out penalty classes and yardage. I have kids with absolutely zero targets and I have to put them in class B (or better) and I have to put people on yardages that they cannot handle. Delaware has only one trap club in the state and target minimums have not had any affect on attendance at WTA. So what gives and when are states going to wake up?
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Gary, the people you absolutely don't want to turn off when trapshooting is new people. Even at the state shoots or anywhere for that matter!

    Chances are the classifier will place an ATA shooter in his "known" class, with thousands of targets under his belt, shot in all shooting conditions and get his known abilities wrong also. Turning off new shooters by outclassing them is a great way to discourage them from returning to the game. I don't think we have much to worry about with new shooters winning our trophies, do we? Even if they should win one, so what? Another long term member is what! Hap
     
  9. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Mr Hap - I agree 100%.
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Ok...Please exsplain the min targets. Do you need to shoot the min each target year? or just the first year you shoot? I will most likely just have enough targets this 2008 target year? but have 2500 from last year. Hey Kid, stop nocking those who may or may not afford ,what ever. If I didnt waste my time shooting marathons to get my min targets I would have shot 5 more events last target year. Its going to get tight for a lot of shooters. If the ATA wanted this to be a rich mans club yearly fees would be in the thousands. Tired of the crap about money. Some have more means than others. Attitude like yours kid is what drives new shooters from joining in. I really dont see many shooters putting up the money for the class purses? I am just begining, I shoot D class and sometimes get put in C. I have put money in the purse only to get it back couse no one else put in. I didnt run around calling people cheap. I also seen many a aa classes with very little $$$ put into purses. Just sick of the nonsense. Id a member can only afford to shoot a few events a year its better than not at all. If you ever wonder where some of the ATA members have gone, they are supporting their local clubs by shooting local shoots and leagues. We have 30 steady trap shooters at our little club and only 2 ATA members. The rest couldnt be bothered, say its not worth it trophy/prizes have gone to ^&*(. I know what they mean to spend 100.00 to 200.00 for a days shooting to get a clock radio flea marget prize stinks. Was talking to a member from another club Had a ATA shoot Shoot of 65shot shoot off for a crank up flash light. Arrrrgghhhh, I love shooting ATA. like going to other clubs, shooting for bragging rights only to loose those braggin rights in short order. love the compitition. Just tired of the $$$ nonsense.
     
  11. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    Neil;
    Why can’t the ATA regulate too the states? The shooters and the state associations pay into the ATA. The ATA set-up the rules for the reg. shoot that is held in the states. If the state associations loose that the ATA looses.


    Thanks Again
    Rio
     
  12. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    mac1911 - min target requirements are listed in every shoot program if they are going to have penalty yardage and classed. In your first year of shooting is difficult to accumulate the requisit number of targets until the middle of summer. But each year is a new year, the requirements usually require a certain number of shells shot in the current target year.
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I was able to get the target requirement for the Grand reduced from 2000 with 1000 in current year to just 1000 in the current year, to take the pressure off new shooters. Also, I was able to change from A to two-class advancement in the interests of fairness and equality, but I plan to work on just one class next year if this years' data support the change. So I have good credentials in this arena, but know better than to mess with what states finds appropriate for each of their own diverse situations.

    Neil
     
  14. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Rio...

    You might want to check again. The state associations pay a grand total of NO dollars to the ATA. In fact, each state recieves a rebate from the ATA based on memberships and, I believe, daily entry fees. Indiana's rebate for the 2005-06 year was $9,257.

    I agree with most everyone that posted on this. This is a state matter. Take it up with your state BOD (NOT your state ATA delegate, unless he/she is on the BOD also). They have the power to change this.

    BTW, Indiana is already less than what you propose: 500 singles / 500 handicap / 300 doules in the current target year. Are we to increase it then? Why in the heck would you require more doubles than singels or handicap when there are MUCH LESS doubles targets shot than singles or handicap?

    John Voliva, R.Ph.<br>
    President<br>
    Indiana Trapshooters Association<br>
     
  15. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Sorry, forgot one other point...

    Another thread was talking about a "novice" or "hunter" class. THAT should be explored more. Anyone having less than 1000-2000 targets TOTAL LIFETIME should be allowed to choose if they want to go into the novice class. They would shoot for their own trophy (and have a chance to win the champion and place trophies in singles and doubles ONLY) and not be allowed to play options. This _COULD_ increase the casual shooter numbers and possibly bring in more regular registered shooters. If the shooter want to play the options, fine. Then they have to abide by the penalty rules. Do they want to be eligible for class and/or handicap/yardage trophies? Fine, then they have to abide by the penalty rule. Any state shoot using Bob Stuart or 3S can easily pull up the number of lifetime targets the person has shot.

    In fact, I may bring this up for discussion at the next BOD meeting...
     
  16. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    OK mac, pay close attention. Anyone who shoots ATA anything for the prizes/money is a fool. There is no money and the prizes reflect the fact that the mentality is to shoot targets for $20.00 per hundred with $5.00 going to the prize fund. 30 shooters and you get $150.00 to divide up between 5 classes plus categories. Charge $50.00 and you would have $1050.00 to divide up. Instead of winning a lousy $25.00 the winners would get $150.00. But, no one will pay $50.00 to shoot targets with their $8,000 trap gun. However, guys will pay $150.00 to play golf for a $10.00 trophy.

    Now a guy posts that says he can't afford to shoot the minimum targets. Screw him. If he can't afford to shoot the minimum targets at local shoots, he shouldn't be wasting his money going to the state shoot. Stay home and pay the rent. If he isn't shooting local shoots he has virtually no chance of shooting even a respectable score at the state shoot.

    You should shoot ATA to test your skills against the best trap shooters. Yeah, the 40 yard pot shooters think they are the best but when they show up for an ATA event all of a sudden they can't win on one lucky shot from a hopped up handload and they don't want to shoot ATA anymore.

    This sport isn't cheap. It needs to attract guys who can afford to shoot a lot of targets, not guys who want to sit around and shoot a couple of $3.00 rounds of club targets, drink beer and go home. It isn't the ATA making the sport expensive, its fees are stupidly low. It's the gas and shells and targets that cost money, but try golf or fishing and see how cheap those aren't.
     
  17. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Kid, Thats said a bit better. Their are people who cant afford to shoot 3000+ targets a year. The more people who shoot just one or two events a year is better for all. I have made a push for our members to at least join the ATA and go to the shoots within a hours drive. I think a few will get the bug. I also play golf and yes it is exspensive also. If the golf courses had the mentality if you only going to play a few times dont bother I think they would see it in the end result. I play one course 1 a year 100+ to play. They gladly take my money let me play feed me and say have a nice day. For me unseasoned shooters to plsy judt the states builds up the pot. Just like newbies to poker we welcome you and your donation. I have been donating all year, LOL. I actually did well for my first year shooting ATA. Thank you john Mac
     
  18. backfenceata

    backfenceata TS Member

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    I think John is on to something with the novice class. How about ideas like that to get more people to try our sport(then we can set the hook and reel them in) Kirk
     
  19. Ithaca$$$Grade

    Ithaca$$$Grade Active Member

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    Minnesota, under the leadership of MTA President Mark Zauhar and its current board has offered trophy's to a Novice only class for the last couple of years. It falls under our effort to get new "club" shooters into the fold. They start shooting for their own trophy's with event 6. Our program is posted above.

    Bringing shooters in under this program is easy to do once you get them to understand that they shoot for their own trophies. It takes the intimidation away from shooting against the "Big Dogs".

    Any questions on this ask away.

    Jim W
     
  20. washandwear

    washandwear Member

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    Like the guy said - hates to classify and give penalty - Novice class would be a better approach. Good idea. Class "N"
     
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