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NEIL - HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE NEW TARGET YEAR

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ivanhoe, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you are missing the fact that the current target year will end on October 31, 08. The 09 shooting year will run from November 1, 08 through August 31, 09 which is only 10 month.

    In order for shooter to have ample time to get target requirements for the grand in 09. Targets shot between the Grand in 08 and the Grand in 09 will count toward the 09 Grand requirements.

    Which means you will not lose the targets you shoot in September and October of 08. I sure hope this helps even though I am not sure that it will.

    Bob Lawless
     
  2. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    ivanhoe,

    I was also going to question the part of Neil's quote that said:"...will start counting at the close of this years Grand..."

    Now, to me, this means starting on the first day after the Grand, and not on November 1, 2008 as the new target year.

    What am I missing?

    Danny
     
  3. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe Big Papa was too worried about the Grand? His question asked if the sorted mini grands, state shoots and such, which have their own minimums would be counting from the shortened year? I was wondering this fact, myself.

    IMO,
    Kip
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    it aint dumb BIG PAPA. I still dont get it. I shoot what I can, when I can. Take what ever penalty I may need to. For me A target year ending in november would be great. Not much shooting between november and may. Weather tends to be better in late fall than early mid spring. ?
     
  5. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    It makes no sense to me at all.

    We start the target year Nov 1 one year and the next year we start it Sept 1.

    Why change it for the coming year?

    Please enlighten me.

    Don
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    BVR TAIL the rulebook says the target year for this year 08 is. "The 2008 target year runs from September 1, 2007 thru October 31, 2008; after that the target year shall be November 1 thru October 31" We already know that the last part of that has been changed to November 1, 08 to August 31, 09.

    This years target year can not be changed now I believe because we are still in the target year it was already voted on and passed and included into the rules.

    With that being said I see it as allowing you to enough time to accumulate the amount of targets for the Grand requirements. As far as the states and mini Grands and zone shoots they can set their own target requirements for the short year that is not under the control of the ATA.

    Why is this a problem for so many? Everyone complained because the target was changed. Now you all get your way and get the target year changed back and you are complaining again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All you have to do is wait until the ink is dry on the paper and I am sure it will all be explained in the ATA newsletter Post Five I believe it is. It will most certainly be in the minutes of the meeting which are usually posted on the ATA's web site. Why is everyone worried about this now???

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse Member

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    Mr. Ivanhoe (Bob)

    You seem to enjoy trying to get in the last word, so I expect you to make your standard reply by saying, “what’s the problem?”.

    You asked, “Why is everyone worried about this now???”. It’s because we didn’t worry about it this time last year and look what we got.

    You seem to want us all to just sit back and accept whatever B.S. the BOD and/or others in power hand down to us. For myself, I refuse to “just sit back” and go down that road. I will only go kicking, fighting and screaming all the way, rather than to accept silly, illogical and arbitrary decisions by those who supposedly represent us.

    There have been dozens of people (including myself) try to explain the problem to you, but you don’t want to open your eyes to see or ears to hear.

    Bob, if you don't understand the problem by now, you never will.

    Now hurry....... get in your last word, because I know you will be unable to resist.
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dark Horse you said "You seem to enjoy trying to get in the last word, so I expect you to make your standard reply by saying, “what’s the problem?”. That is an interesting observation. The only reason I say whats the problem is I don't see it as a problem. Everyone on here gets their panties in a wad over a target year change. One I might add that no one even knows what will happen by the change.

    Oh sure everyone thinks they know what will happen but no one knows for sure now do they?

    I remember when the target year started October 1, and ended September 30, every year and no one cried or complained. I won't be able to get my targets in BOO HOO!!! You know what no one had any trouble getting their targets. At least I never heard anyone complain about it.

    You said "For myself, I refuse to “just sit back” and go down that road. I will only go kicking, fighting and screaming all the way, rather than to accept silly, illogical and arbitrary decisions by those who supposedly represent us." Now let me know just how kicking, fighting, and screaming all the way would do you any good if the target year hadn't been changed back.

    I'll tell you, nothing you would have had two choices shoot the way it is or quit. So please don't try to make it sound like it is my fault. You said that dozens of people tried to tell me but I won't see or hear what they are saying. Well guess what all I heard were what they were speculating about not where they got the facts to back it up with.

    Last but not least you said to me. "Now hurry....... get in your last word, because I know you will be unable to resist." That is a poor way to try to get me to not reply. When all of you that feel you have the answers can prove what you say will happen I will stop replying. Until then my opinion is as good as yours. What da ya think!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse Member

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    Ivanhoe, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But you just don’t get it and at this point, never will!

    My fellow Trapshooters however did make enough noise with our kicking and screaming to make the Delegates and BOD rethink their decision and see the error of their ways. I am sorry that you don’t see that obvious fact.

    You say “Oh sure everyone thinks they know what will happen but no one knows for sure now do they?”. Of course, you are right about that also, but I’m pretty sure if I stick my hand in the fire, I will get burned...... I don't need any proof to know for sure. Apparently you do!

    You still..... just don’t get it!

    OK.......Your turn for that last word .....I promise I will let you have it!
     
  10. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the explanation, Bob
     
  11. Marco Polo

    Marco Polo TS Member

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    The question that needs to be answered is ------What states will count the targets shot in September and October as part of their target minimums for their state shoots or even the mini grands ?????<br>
    <br>
    How about an answer from say......... Illinois, Michigan (and the Great Lakes Grand) . wisconsin, Iowa, etc.....<br>
    <br>
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Marco Polo the ATA does not control what your state and neighboring states set for target minimums those states do. I also don't know the rule for the states you are asking about, But around this area the Northeast there are multiple years to acquire your minimums so at least for the people in this area it will not be a problem.

    Dark Horse I understand that you feel you are proving something about me and the last word. However if you look at what you are writing you should see that your original post served no purpose. As an example you wrote,

    "My fellow Trapshooters however did make enough noise with our kicking and screaming to make the Delegates and BOD rethink their decision and see the error of their ways. I am sorry that you don’t see that obvious fact."

    I do see that fact and as far as I am concerned it is not easy to admit the officials of this organization bowing to the all the crybabies just to make a minority happy,

    You said "I’m pretty sure if I stick my hand in the fire, I will get burned" brilliant deduction and of course you are right. But how do you know? I know this won't set well with you, but I can tell you experience something that you don't have on the target year change. You just don't get it do you?

    You see there is nothing for me to get you and the rest of your fellow complainers and one way shooters all feel that you have the perfect answer to the change. Whine and cry until you get your way. Don't for one minute except any thing that doesn't change things in your favor at least as you see it.

    Ya I can see that you get it. Well you wait shortly everything that the crybabies don't like will be a major discussion on here because now as you said "My fellow Trapshooters however did make enough noise with our kicking and screaming to make the Delegates and BOD rethink their decision" so now the breaks are off, Everything they don't like they will cry loud and long to get them changed. If that works the rulebook will become a revolving door and the only rule that will be in that book are the one that were cried for the loudest and longest.

    Yet you still don't get it? Do You?

    Above I said your original post has no purpose it should say little purpose you won the battle. Unfortunately you may have lost the war. You see I look a little farther down the road. I see this association becoming filled with those that find it easier to get their way by complaining rather than take a chance and see what happens. Working for what they get is in the past. Now they will complain to get what they want. To hell with competition complaining is easier much easier. Of course I just don't get it.

    You will of course excuse me if a thousand of you try to explain it to me and I don't get it. If these are the conditions you are asking me to get, don't hold your breath it ain't going to happen.

    Think about it for a while. Stop looking into the tunnel and start looking it to the future and around you at other amateur sports. Especially in the sports that are being taught to the very young.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. kolarshooter

    kolarshooter Member

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    It does not matter. When the dummycrats get in, we will lose all of our 2nd ammendment rights.we will have NO tatgets to shoot at. Or any type of firearm to shoot them with.

    Just MY thoughts.
     
  14. birdtracker

    birdtracker Active Member

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    I know the BOD says it will save money by changing the target year. I also know alot of people are wondering about the amount of time invested in changing the target year could of been put to somethings alittle more important such as attracting new shooters. Don
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    kolarshooter if you are correct why do you suppose they haven't done up to now after all they have control over both the House and Senate. What is to stop them?

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Bob,

    Maybe the BOD realized they made a mistake when they changed it last year. As far as changing the rules for a bunch of whiners, complainers etc. I guess as members of the association we are all entitled to our opinions. When enough people voice the same concern, well I guess it's worth considering, or reconsidering in this case.

    The way I see it they are three groups of shooters, those that would shoot in Sept/Oct regardless of the target year, those that won't shoot in Sept/Oct regardless of the targer year and those that will decide to shoot(or not) in Sept/Oct depending on the target year.

    All the noise was made by the latter group because they were the only ones that cared or that the decision impacted. So why not listen the this group? You know your decision will not affect either of the other groups.
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    tom berry you wrote "All the noise was made by the latter group because they were the only ones that cared or that the decision impacted. So why not listen the this group?" An interesting thought the best way I can answer that is by asking you a couple of questions.

    Were you happy when the minority complained and got prayer in the schools stopped?

    Are you happy that there are 15 million illegal immigrants in this country. Yet know one is listening to those that I believe are the majority in this country that want that changed?

    Are you satisfied when issues are decided by a minority?

    If not why are you satisfied to let the minority whine and cry to get the rule in this associations changed?

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    DAMN ... somewhere and somehow the ATA is ripping us off. I paid for a full target year and aint gonna get it!
     
  19. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Bob,

    let's keep the issue to rule change of the ATA target year. I support the rule change because I think it was the right thing to do. In my opinion if more people wanted to keep the rule they should have spoken up and been heard. So, in that respect, the majority of the people that spoke up must have been in favor of a rule change or it wouldn't have happened.

    I also like the change back to 9/1 as I like shooting in the fall and having these targets count towards next years State shoots helps me as it is more difficult for me to get targets in the spring and early summer. All the states around here require a certain number of targets be acquired during the current target year.

    This was being discussed long before the meeting and those opposed to changing the dates back had ample opportunity to get to their delegate.

    If the reason for rule change to Nov 1 was accurately reported on here, then in my opinion it was changed for the wrong reason last year and an appropriate correction made this year. I see this as the ATA recognizing that they made a mistake last year and correcting it.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    tom berry thats very good, so you said "I see this as the ATA recognizing that they made a mistake last year and correcting it."

    Now bear with me but what made them think they made a mistake? Was it all the shooters that dropped out and stopped shooting or perhaps there were other factors. After all it couldn't be the drop out rate the year hasn't ended so there would be no way of telling. Not to mention the fact that all of the shoots seem to be down. Of course with gas prices being what they are there is no proof that, that would be the reason anyway.

    So if they thought at when the change was made that it would make it better what do you suppose made them arrive at the conclusion that they made a mistake. Oh I will just bet it was from all of those complaints from the whiners. Yap that must be it because there are no other comparisons yet this target year hasn't ended let alone reasons for next year. Of course I am according to you the only one that believes that this might be the case.

    Bob Lawless
     
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