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Negative pitch problem with my new gun?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by menshov, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Hi everybody. I have been shooting my beretta dt-10 for about 3 years and just got a k-80. After a few hundred rounds something felt wrong. I realized that a k-80 doesn't have the same negative pitch that my beretta. I had a new pad with negative pitch put in it. After shooting it yesterday I was very comfortable the way the gun fits me but it was shooting too much to the left. I had to move comb 2.5 to 3 notches to the right to compensate for shooting to the left. How does adding a negative pitch pad change my POI so much that I had to compensate for it by creating cast on with the comb. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you. Greg.
     
  2. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    More likely the change wasn't in the cast, it was in the way the gun was canted. When you change the way a gun sits in your pocket, it may cause the
    gun to rotate one way or another - what we call "canting." It looks like the gun needs cast in or cast off, but it doesn't. You will see many shooters
    with the pad rotated on the gunstock, to eliminate a canting problem. You may need to do the same thing, but the problem can't be solved by moving the comb like you've done.
     
  3. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Well so you are sayng that I mount the gun two different ways with two pads. Well I don't know. It's possible, but I thing it's very unlikely.Because it's like happened overnight.
     
  4. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    When a gun is canted (rotated) even slightly, the bead alignment can change, and it looks like the gun is pointed left or right. It wouldn't happen overnight, it would happen instantly. As soon as you changed the pitch the
    butt pad fit your shoulder differently. You said it yourself, "it was
    very comfortable." I suggest that you leave it the way it is with the adjustment to the comb. I just wanted to explain why it happened.
     
  5. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Thank's. I may have to do that, even so the comb look so ugly and its uncomfortable on my face. Greg.
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Greg, a pad adjuster would probably solve your problem. 100 Straight Products sells several. Graco, too.They allow you to rotate the pad to eliminate
    canting. Next time you're at a shoot look at all the guns with rotated pads.
     
  7. menshov

    menshov Member

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    I just got back from PA where I got the pad installed for me. The guy did not say anything if I would need to do something extra like cant. But thank's for your advise, I may consider that. Greg.
     
  8. Dave P

    Dave P TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    So then you are not really talking about pitch, right?
     
  9. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Well from what I know he did put the new pad with the pitch.Greg
     
  10. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Greg,

    I'm not convinced that you know what pitch is. Pitch is the angle formed by the recoil pad and the rib - close to 90 degrees.

    The pitch is righ for you when, as the gun is being mounted with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height, the whole recoil pad, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact as the gun is brought back to the shoulder.

    The most common pitch problem is when the bottom "toe" of the pad makes contact with the shoulder well before the top of the recoil pad.

    The common reason recoil pads are rotated with a pad adjuser is because the pitch is wrong and shooters want to put the toe of the pad nearer or in their armpit.

    Chances are, the pitch on the stock has little or nothing to do with your gun's shooting to the left - unless your gun shoots high and you are rotating the gun to counterclockwise and you shoot right-handed. Unless you are, something else is causing it to shoot left, if in fact, it actually is shooting to the left.

    Have you shot the gun like a rifle, squeeZing off each shot, at a plus sign (+) at a distance of 11 - 13 yards using a solid rest, with you eye looking down the center of the rib, to confirm that it is actually shooting to the left?

    Rollin
     
  11. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Thank you very much for your advise. I will try to do that at the club today. Let me try to explain what do I feel when mounting the gun. It's like you said the bottom "toe" of the pad makes contact with the shoulder well before the top of the recoil pad. So i had a new pad put on, the one off kick eez pads that top "toe" is thicker then the bottom, so in my understanding it was giving me the pitch that i needed. Thank you Greg.
     
  12. Dougbbbb

    Dougbbbb TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Greg's berreta pad and the old k80 pad


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    New pad




    [​IMG]
     
  13. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Just shot at the club using solid rest at about 11 yards. Gun shoots straight. Greg.
     
  14. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    Greg shots some good scores today and he doesn`t cant his gun . Matter of getting use to a new gun is what I see .
     
  15. menshov

    menshov Member

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    Thank's I hope so. Greg
     
  16. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    After seeing a gunsmith here in Australia change the pitch on a number of new K guns at our recent nationals I was shocked to say the least as these sell in the $14,000 plus range and they are not able to be ordered custom made for the purchaser.The agent here is trying to get Kreighoff to change as they unsuitable in the format that is sold here
    The pitch is in most cases positive.
    Paul
     
  17. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    I can't imagine why manufacturers sell guns with a slightly concave pad with the bottom toe protruding. The only way it could fit the shoulder pocket is if the gun was rotated (canted) to put the toe in the armpit.

    In fact I have never seen a shoulder pocket that would be better fit with a concave recoil pad - unless the gun were mounted much too low on the shoulder, the breast, actually.

    Convex pads also puzzle me to an extent. The often the shoulder pocket well when the gun is mounted below the collarbone but they also increase barrel rise.
    That is because the pivot point of the gun during recoil as the barrel rises, is lower on the pad than if the top of the pad were on the collarbone.

    The cause and effect relationship is the same as it is when the bottom toe of a recoil pad sticks out too far and the shooter suffers cheek slap as a result. The pivot point has been lowered farther below the bore axis. As a result, barrel (and comb) rise increase.

    If anyone has this problem with a protruding toe on their stock, you can experiment with changing the pitch by putting a shim or shims (washers work well) on the top recoil pad attachment screw between the stock and the pad.

    If you need a lot of washers, you may need a longer screw and need to shim the center of the pad to keep it from cracking during recoil.

    Remember: The pitch is right FOR YOU when, as you are mounting the gun, the entire recoil pad, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact with your shoulder. When you check the pitch, the barrel should be raised to a normal shooting height.

    The toe of the pad needs to make only enough contact with the shoulder to provide the friction necessary to avoid accidental canting of the gun during swings. The toe should never be applying more pressure to the shoulder than the top (heel) of the recoil pad.

    The perminant fix for the pitch problem is installing a tapered spacer with the thicker end at the top or having the stock cut to correct the pitch.

    Rollin
     
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