1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

NEED SOME LEGAL ADVICE!

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by senior smoke, Feb 20, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    HELLO:
    I need some legal advice. my father in law is 85 years old and very wealthy. one of my nieces just got married and her and new husband want to purchase one of her grandfather's many homes that he has for sale. The home list for $155,000.00 and my father in law as a wedding present said he will he would sell the property to them for $140,000.00 on a land contract with no down payment spread over 30 years, with no interest. obviously, my father in law is not going to live another 30 years so what does he have to do to protect his grand daughter from some of his other greedy children? they are already upset that he is doing this for her. each of his children over the years have received gifts totaling a lot more than what he is offering his grand daughter. my wife who is one of his daughters feels that this is her father's money, he has a right to do what ever he wants with it. my wife is very happy that her dad has the means to help his grand daughter out. other brothers and sisters have said as soon as he passes away, they will take her to court to get her out of the property so they can sell it and divide the money among themselves. my wife is ashamed of how her other siblings are acting. how can my father in law be assured that his grand daughter is protected after he passes away? also, have any of you experienced relatives greed once a father or mother passes away?
    steve balistreri
     
  2. Onceabum

    Onceabum TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    860
    Steve,

    You people might want to ask an attorney the same question you asked above. Sounds like you might be able to afford one.

    BB
     
  3. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    BB:
    my father in law talked to an attorney friend of his on the golf course and said these type of transactions open up a can of worms. he told him don't do it because this will split the family. so he now has an appointment next week to discuss this further with another attorney. i believe you have a right to do what you want with your own money without children interference. his grand daughter has found out about her aunt and uncles feelings and she has told her grand father no thank you for the offer. my father in law insist on doing this for her. REMEMBER, NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNNISHED!
    STEVE
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    I suggest your father-in-law do whatever he wants with his money, houses, time, whatever. He doesn't owe anyone anything and people who inherit - whether a lot or a little - should simply thank their lucky stars and be happy with their lot.

    Neil
     
  5. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    Neil:
    i agree with you 100%. i grew up as poor as they come. sometimes, no matter how much money you have is never enough for some people.
    steve
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,258
    I would imagine that the Grandfather would set the house deal up through a trust which unlike people won't die. A man of his means no doubt has lawyers that can handle that for him. Then when he does pass away, the trust can be assigned to who ever he stipulates in his will. I would bet it would be the grandaughter that is buying the property. Nothing for anyone to contest.
     
  7. warren

    warren Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    948
    Location:
    Fernley, Nevada
    Just make sure they have the documentation of the sale and keep receipts of all their payments, it is my understanding that a land contract is legal and binding but the actual title of the property does not pass to the buyer until it is paid in full. It is still a binding contract and it sounds a legitimate deal to me. I am not an attorney so this is just my opinion from real estate experience.

    warren
     
  8. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    wolfram and warren:
    my wife's father is a self made man. great investments over the years. problem is that he is generous with family to a fault, but hates spending money on attorneys. he lived in a much different time. he feels attorneys should not be needed because this is family. i talked to his grand daughter tonight and she said please tell him we no longer want to do this. the kid feels terrible now that there is now friction within the family over this. if he was a younger man i wish he'd take those kids out behind the barn. by the way, he has a field grade model 12 that he use to take hunting. the next fight will be over that.
    steve
     
  9. warren

    warren Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    948
    Location:
    Fernley, Nevada
    In that case only he is in a position to decide, but as far as the transaction is concerned it sounds fine to me, I agree with him about attorneys as far as I'm concerned they are a leach on society. You've heard the story the if there is just one attorney in a town he goes broke but if there's two they both get rich. I was in litigation one time in my life that took 13 years to finally settle all because of attorneys.

    warren
     
  10. 1atatime

    1atatime TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    108
    Assuming the sale went thru on a land contract, upon the grandfather's death the land contract would either be "sold" to put cash into the estate or would be assigned to a beneficiary who would then receive the monthly payments. The contract remains fully valid and whoever has it (purchaser for money or assignee) must honor its terms. Only if there is a breach can the owner of the "vendor's interest" (seller's) foreclose on the land contract. If the buyer fully performs, the vendor must provide a warranty deed in satisfaction of the land contract when paid. By the way, if sold, it will fetch TENS OF THOUSANDS LESS THAN ITS "FACE" VALUE!

    One consideration about a land contract: In most jurisdictions, if a land contract is foreclosed, it is known as an "absolute" foreclosure. That means the holder of the vendor's interest gets the property back AND keeps all payments made over the course of the contract. This varies from a note and mortgage in which the note holder (lender) is entitled to recover only the amount of the outstanding note, with any equity from a sale going to the buyer.

    There are a couple of caveats. First, grandpa MIGHT put a "forgiveness of debt" clause in the contract. Upon death, the debt is cancelled and the estate executor/personal representrative will have to give a deed in satisfaction. Second, there might be a "balloon" provision that the contract is payable only for "X" number of years or the occurrence of some event, then must be paid in full. There may be other creative provisions also.

    Finally, if Gramps does this without interest, he may face an IRS problem of "imputed income". Certainly he is free to forgo interest, but the IRS takes the position that if he does, they are still entitled to tax the amount of interest he should have earned. There is a table (revised monthly) that sets forth the minimum interest rate. It is usually somewhere around 4%. Assuming a $140K debt, the imputed interest would be about $5,600 upon which Grandpa would have to pay income tax. At a 28% marginal rate, that would be about $1568 federal. If his home state has an income tax, he'd probably owe state tax, too.

    Gramps should definitely consult a real estate attorney to draft a document that will meet the needs of both buyer and seller.

    I hope this is helpful.
     
  11. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    1atatime:
    thank you very much for the info, deeply appreciated. if he wants to go ahead with this, he does need to set it up with an attorney.
    thanks,
    steve
     
  12. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,270
    Get an attorney. It's kind'a hard to go into a court room and say, "FunkyMonkey_125 said it was all legal".

    Free legal advice you get on the internet is worth exactly what you paid for it.
     
  13. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,552
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    ysr racer:
    i am still laughing. you mean to tell me if i tell the judge i got this legal opinion off ts.com, that he would not be impressed?
    steve
     
  14. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    10,650
    Steve,,,,have him put it in his Last Will and Testament....He could also put in there if any heir contests the will, they will be disinherited....
     
  15. DoubleAuto

    DoubleAuto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,311
    Location:
    Out On The Mountain
    If the real estate transaction with the granddaughter cannot be worked out, then grandpa could at least "gift" $13,000 a year to the granddaughter and $13,000 a year to her husband to buy a house with no IRS repercussions. If grandmother is still alive, she can do the same thing. This will at least give the granddaughter a good start on purchasing a home.

    Seeing a real estate attorney is definitely in order. Then grandpa needs to see an estate attorney and change his will away from the greedy siblings.

    DoubleAuto
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,122
    He needs to invest in the "Setterman Rod and Gun fund". $200,000 ought to do it. I will promptly purchsae as many Model 12's as I can. They were worth $75 in 1945.
     
  17. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    91
    double auto is on the right track. Sell the house for 140K. Let the granddaughter find her own financing. Grandpa gifts 26K to granddaughter and spouse for three calendar years. This results in the same cash flow as an interest free 30 year loan and only takes 26 months.

    This also gives her the $8,000 homebuyer tax credit and a nice tax deduction on the interest. She also gets a nice boost to her credit score.

    P.S. You might want to think about putting the house solely in the granddaughters name. Might keep it in the family if the new son-in-law pulls a Tiger.

    Greedy relatives are a pain. My wife's family fought for almost a year over an $80,000 estate split 5 ways.
     
  18. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,246
    For the love of God man, get a lawyer! I served as executor on a nasty estate settlement, and my wife got hosed out of a small fortune over a "side-deal" like this. Those experiences, and all the horror stories my estate attorney told me, made it crystal clear how crucial it is to get things nailed down legally.

    -Gary
     
  19. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,270
    But, but FunkyMonkey_125 said it was OK.

    I don't know who's crazier,

    1. someone that asks for legal advice on the internet.
    2. someone that gives legal advice on the internet.
    3. or someone that that takes the legal advice they got on the internet.
     
  20. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,038
    senior smoke, you asked a question above about seeing this kind of attitude with sibblings when money is involved. Way to many times in my life. It seems that if there are more than one heir, someone feels they are getting cheated. I have seen it actually come down to a gun rack than a son made in high school and the negative results generated because he wanted it back and a sister wanted the same item.

    Tell your grand daughter not to worry about splitting the family or causing problems. It was going to happen anyway and will be happening as soon as your father in law passes. The house deal is irrelevant wether it happens or not...

    One final comment. It sounds as though your father in law is still in good health. As such, I would advise him to take the sibblings to the wood shed and treat them as 10 year olds!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.