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Need reload recipe for PB powder

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by cubancigar2000, Jun 22, 2008.

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  1. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Been shooting heavy PB loads for 20 + years. 1 1/4 oz # 4's ( go with 5 or 6 if you want, I prefer 4's) 24 - 26 grains PB, Fed 209 primer, Fed 12S3 wads. I prefer Active hulls but they are getting hard to find so STS or Rem gold, Fed they all work fine. Even use the Winchester grey hulls no prob. You can kick the PB up or down depending on how much recoil you can handle.
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    My IMR Reloading Guide lists STS hull, Fed 209A primer, 22gr PB, Fig-8 wad, 1 1/8 shot for 1200fps @8900psi.

    They don't list that load with a TGT-12 because it doesn't fit. You'll have to squash the heck out of it to get the hull crimped. If you want to try it, go ahead. The TGT-12 can be substituted for the Fig-8 with minimal pressure consequences.

    I think you would be better off with the Fig-8 or the Windjammer.

    BTW, if you are trying for the lowest felt recoil load, lose the Fed 209A and use an STS209 or W209. They kick a lot less than the Fed 209A. A W209 drops the velocity to 1190fps @ 8400psi.
     
  3. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    zzt is right.

    The TGT 12 is a little taller than the Fig 8 wad. Interestingly, the shot cup of the TGT 12 will hold 1 1/8 oz of shot.

    You can double check zzt's recipe and look at others at the link to Hodgdon's site above. Enter the Reloading Data Center and agree to terms etc. The Center has data for Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders.

    Jason
     
  4. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    It might not seem possible, but my 1,200 FPS loads (per a chronograph) in a Nitro 27 hull with PB and a TGT-12S wad crimp beautifully with enough wad pressure to barely move the indicator on my loader.

    Ed
     
  5. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    I'am backin Averaged, loading it for years, and it is a mild recoil smoking load.
     
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Jack, if MEC's chart says a #33 will drop that amount, it will be close but you HAVE to use a scale to be sure because, as you probably know, powder will vary in density (and, therefore, weight) between manufacturing lots.

    Back when the STS and Nitro 27 hulls first came out, a Remington rep told me that the only difference was the color but other folks on here often believe otherwise. Perhaps there has been a change since their release but I personally have never seen a difference in reloadability or durability.

    I think you'll be in good shape with 21.9 grains for handicap. With that much PB, a TGT-12S in Remington hulls crimps just fine for me with very minimal wad pressure - the indicator barely moves - and the chronograph should read right around 1,200 fps.

    You flatter me but old Ed hasn't been AAA or AA material since the eye problem set in. One trap can be a 25 and the next can just as easily be a 21.

    Ed
     
  7. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    You'll love them MIA.

    Ed, wad pressure is not the issue. When you load the shot then crimp it really squashes the TGT-12 wad. No matter how you cut it you get a little bulge in the crimp.

    Jason, the TGT holds 1 1/32oz, the Fig-8 holds 1 1/8oz.
     
  8. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    ZZT, I beg to differ. If the crimp die pushes the wad column down, the side of the hull buckles because the hull material is pinched between the die and the shot, so it gets pushed down, too. Since the head of the shell can't move down, the sides buckle inward.

    We apparently load different amounts of PB.

    Ed
     
  9. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Ed, I think we were both loading 22gr of PB in an STS hull. When I tried to use the TGT-12 wad with 1 1/8oz of shot, the hull didn't bulge or buckle, the wad compressed A LOT, and over time the crimps bulged outward a little. My crimp depth is set to .060+", so that's a sure sign of a fit problem.

    Jack, PM me your fax number and I'll send you the IMR PB data.
     
  10. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Well, we're close enough for government work. I just checked a box from a flat loaded with TGT-12S wads almost two years ago and the crimps are nice and flat and the depth of a dime. Holding them up to a strong light shows an almost uncompressed cushion section. Beats me!

    Ed
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Must be powder density Ed. I was using the old, bulky American stuff. The Canadian stuff is much finer and denser, so maybe that's it.
     
  12. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Jack, even shells loaded with a "soft shooting" powder like PB will have some "snap" to them in the upper register of shot speed. Something about "opposite and equal reactions"... But you're in the right ballpark, charge weight-wise, for handicap from long yardage.

    Having said that, you could probably break the same scores in more compfort with the lighter charge weight. Did you know that it only takes lead shot with a muzzle velocity of 1,145 fps .007 of a second longer to travel 60 yards than shot leaving the muzzle at 1,200 fps? Check out the chart at the link above.

    Ed
     
  13. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you broke those last targets better while shooting a little slower tells me that your brain was finally given the time it needs to get a good visual lock on the target. Doubles targets don't require as much time because they always go to about the same place - there's no "surprise factor" as in singles and handicap.

    I don't use those one ounce loads for handicap, either. I like 7-1/2s for handicap and don't think an ounce of that shot size has enough pattern density from 27 yards. If I was a better shooter and could center more of my targets, perhaps it might work.

    I think your idea about bushing size is a good one - my handicap load is 21.5 grains (don't recall the bushing number offhand) and with a TGT-12S wad and a Federal 209A, my rifle chrono says they are right on 1,200 fps, which means they are actually going about 1,180-ish.

    While you're buying a scale, why not look into a digital one? They don't cost any more than a decent balance beam and are much faster and easier to use.

    Ed
     
  14. hairy

    hairy TS Member

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    MIA, I bought an RCBS 505 this spring. All the scale you'll need. It replaced a Herters model perfect scale that I bought in 1972 for $8.29
     
  15. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    MIA I have a very nice Ohaus 10-10 scale for sale.
     
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