1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Need Info About Dump Truck Dirt Loads.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Auctioneer, Jun 16, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    A neighbor wants to get a place close to his to put 12,000 +- square yards of dirt. I have a place that they can put it about 400 yards from the work site. The two places are across fields so they don't have to get on asphalt.

    If they have to take it off the place say to the landfill that is $70.00 per truck load and $8.00 per ton at the landfill. It is also a hour round trip. The dump trucks will be the daul axle with a drop down axle. I don't know what yardage they hold.

    I want them to pack the dirt, keep the grade level, no erosion, a layer of good top soil, keep it so I can mow it with a tractor and seeding. Clean up the road coming in.

    To give them the right to place the dirt and have them agree to do the things I want above what would be a fair price? I don't want to cut their throat or my throat.
     
  2. Itchyb

    Itchyb TS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    133
    A square yard or cubic yard?
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Write up a contract so enforce doing the job properly.
     
  4. cafowler

    cafowler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    323
    Location:
    NorCal
    I think you're describing "10-wheelers", they'll hold about 12 yards of dirt. Maybe SuperDumps which hold more, I think 16 yards? I use 1.65 Tns/CY for dirt and 2 Tns/CY for rock. The question you're asking depends on the type of material they're moving, if there's lots of rock in it then it's closer to the 2 Tns/CY. Trucking is based on weight not volume, they have a max weight they can haul down the road. Double-bottoms and Transfers can haul a max of abou 22 Tns here, it may differ where you are. That drop down axle you mention allows the truck to haul a bit heavier/denser material without worry of getting a ticket for an overweight load. As long as he doesn't have to go on a public road, he can overload those trucks so they are spilling dirt over the side and be way overweight.

    You really answered your question yourself. A 400 yard haul distance doesn't sound far, but is it slow up hill, thru much, fast downhill? What you need to figure is the cycle time; time to load, travel, dump, return travel, position to load and put a cost to that crew for that time; loader/oper, truck/oper. Either way it sounds like your spot to receive 12,000 CY's is going to be much closer/cheaper than hauling the material to a dump. I doubt he'd haul it to the dump, 12,000 CY's is way to costly to "give" to the dump. He'll find a taker for the dirt somewhere.

    For them to compact the fill on your property requires another piece of eqp and operator. to grade it level depending on how close a grade you want may required a blade and transport cost. He'd probably bring in a dozer to push up the existing top-soil on your land, then pick it up and re-spread it on top of the fill, another cost.

    12,000 yards is good chunk of dirt. I'd guess what you're describing is about $2-$4/CY dirt haul + the compaction, grading & top soil and seeding if I were charging you to do the job as a grading contractor. The dirt game has lots of risks in it. If the guy needs to get rid of it fast, I'd expect him to do it at not cost to you.
     
  5. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,083
    What grade is the dirt? Is it clean? Commercial grade? Contaminated? You should have a statement of inspection declaring it to be contaminant free, or no deal. What type of soil is it? Is it a sandy loam, plain old clay based dirt, straight clay, or is it gravel? If they strip the topsoil and dump it on your property, then get into clay or gravel underneath, you will end up with a mess which won't be to your liking. You should also investigate whether or not it is legal to dump that quantity of fill on your property. We had over 10,000 yards put on club property, and somebody raised hell about it being a commercial dump site, and said the soil was contaminated. We were able to prove that we were just leveling off the trap range, and that it was not contaminated soil, so it was alright, but it would have been an incredibly expensive proposition to remove the fill and remediate the site if they had prevailed.

    If it is legal, and the soil is not contaminated, have a signed contract which spells out clearly your wishes and expectations and the procedures to be followed, and write in a penalty clause, so if the fill is less than represented, or the work is improperly finished, you have a remedy available.

    Be aware that the trucks will probably be at least 12 to 15 yards each, which will be up to 1,000 truckloads. They will compact the soil between sites incredibly, as they go back and forth, so much so that it may impact groundwater flows, depending on your watertable. The weight of the fill may also impact the groundwater flow, as well as block natural runoff, so be aware of potential flooding problems on surrounding land. If you accept the fill, you may be liable for future flooding caused by it.

    I hope I have made you aware of some of the potential problems, so you can avoid them before they occur. Good luck with it.
     
  6. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    Square yard and yes there will be a contract. If anything needs to be done its all on them. I have nothing to do but supply the place. Everything else is all theirs.

    What they are doing is putting in a pond. The dirt will be some top soil, red clay and some good dirt mixed in. He is doing some drilling to see what rock is there. The area its going in will be far enough away from any wells. It will be going in a revien(sp) that we are using as a brush pile burn area. All this work is being done away from the public road where no one can see a thing. In other words no damn cell phone hero's to save the world.
     
  7. ThorsDad

    ThorsDad TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    107
    Auctioneer , dumps sites for excess material are extremely valuable to owners and contracters the closer the better but don't expect to make money off them . Ideally you want to increase the vaue of your property for free . You have the right to demand the material and your property be handled to your standards . Something to think about if your filling in a ravene if due wet to conditions will a slide cause you any goverment or money liability issues . Don't know your ground and water situation but I always key my fills in at the bottom and compact my way up , alot of guys just start dumping at the top and keep pushing downhill maybe resulting in something unstable then you might be liable for problems . Doing this though might make them find a cheaper option if there is one . Our company policy is to return dumpsites to existing or better conditions or to the new standards of the contract , take plenty of photo's and video so can help the contrator meet your standards . Hope this works out for both parties . JAY
     
  8. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    Don't take their word or calculations as every estimate they make will favor them, If you're serious about this you need to hire two people - (1) an attorney who deals in land use issues and permits plus (2) a Civil Engineer who can answer all your questions, do any math required, prepare drawings and set up a schedule and flow chart to move the material.

    This isn't Mickey Rooney and the gang putting on a musical show to save the family farm - do it wrong (and there are plenty of ways to go wrong)and you could be on the hook for a lot of money,
     
  9. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    One thing I have learned dot your I's and cross all your T's. Spell out everything. I do have a person who I will pass things by for all legal angles. In the contract I will state that they take all responsibility for eveything.

    Start at the bottom is a very good idea and is the best way to do so.

    They are suppose to bring me in time a topo map and computer layout of how things will look after the dirt is in place. That will give me more info of what to expect.
     
  10. Joen

    Joen Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    89
    I'm a Excavating Contractor if it was my land there would be a written agreement and a $10,000.00 deposit (from the contractor) held by a third prarty to insure that the project is completed to the agreement. If completed to the agreement the contractor would get 100% his money back if not the amount of the repair would be deducted from the deposit Hope this helps
     
  11. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,775
    Write up a full description of the work to be done and get a performance bond or a large deposit. These guys often walk away before the job is done to your agreed specs and you are left with the cost of finishing the work.

    They might find that the cost to scrape and stockpile the topsoil, spread and grade the new soil and then replace the topsoil is more than they can afford. I can't imagine them, "packing" the dirt. They will dump it and spread it with a dozer. There may be some erosion (furroms and the like) but there should not be much if the site is fairly level. Have them agree to dress it say 2-4 months after completion . Hold an escrow to encourage them to do so.
     
  12. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,289
    Auctioneer, are you sure that you are talking about a square yard? Not much dirt in a square yard. Lots more in a cubic yard.
     
  13. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    The contractor who is handling this I'm sure said Square yards and not cubic yards. I wrote down what he said. But again he could be wrong. I will know more at some point when we get back together.
     
  14. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    841
    If the contractor told you 12000 square yards which makes no sense in my opinion. It would be easier to figure by cubic yards. Now your 12000 square feet becomes about 445 cubic yards. Or about 37 12 yard truck loads if there hauling with tri axle dumps. Not a lot of fill. I have dug a few ponds and many times run in to wet dirt that wont compact any way so I wouldn't be so concerned about compaction. The weight of the cat pushing the dirt will give you enough compaction for your use.

    If your benefitting from receiving this fill and they properly grade it for seeding let them do it. The benefits of helping a neighbor is priceless.
     
  15. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    Whiz Bang, thanks for your post. This neighbor so far isn't proving to be a likeable one. He has a guy who lets say has a silver tongue(who I keep at arms length at all times) and is nothing but trouble. They are now friends. I owe them nothing. Its the builder who I'm working with for the most part. If I do this its for the money that will be paid to me for the use of my land. That money will go to fix other things here on the place that I just can't afford to do so right now. Things that I hope will bring in a monthly income.
     
  16. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    Whiz White, thanks for your post. This neighbor so far isn't proving to be a likeable one. He has a guy who lets say has a silver tongue(who I keep at arms length at all times) and is nothing but trouble. They are now friends. I owe them nothing. Its the builder who I'm working with for the most part. If I do this its for the money that will be paid to me for the use of my land. That money will go to fix other things here on the place that I just can't afford to do so right now. Things that I hope will bring in a monthly income.
     
  17. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    841
    Auctioneer I made a mistake in my calculation. When ever I calculate hauling fill I figure by the square foot than calculate to cubic yards. I made a mistake of 12000 square yards as 12000 square feet. My mistake sorry for wrong info. The haul amount will be more.
     
  18. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,289
    So, how do ya figger a square yard of dirt? And, how does that compare to a cubic yard? Ya'll got me confused here.
     
  19. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    Not a problem Whiz Bang. I have to check the number twice myself from time to time.
     
  20. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Indiana
    Isn't dirt valuable? Can you pile it up and sell it off later? I see people buying dirt around here all the time.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.