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Need help with shotmaker

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jws123, May 27, 2011.

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  1. jws123

    jws123 TS Member

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    I have a couple of observations and questions concerning my shot maker. I just started up my better shotmaker for the season. First, the crop oil from last year turned to a black goo, real nasty! Tossed it, I tried the water soluble oil E-206 that Black Cloud suggested, it worked as well as the crop oil and no cleanup, a lot cheaper too, $30 for enough to make 20 gallons.

    The no.9 drippers are making 8's and 7 1/2 shot, was having the same problem last year, so I blended an alloy with Linotype and wheel weights to get 6% antimony content. That is double the hardness of the WW. Still getting 8 and 7 1/2. Also had to keep a torch on the drippers and lip (keep drips from forming)a lot to keep things running. The shot came out OK not great but not bad, it is certainly better than used shot. I would like to get to making smaller shot for skeet. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong or need to change.
     
  2. WTW

    WTW Member

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    I am having the same problem with my shot. I get mostly #7.5 and some #6. The shot is not to bad. The crop oil did not clean up and was sticky after being washed and dried. I went back to used ATF. I get it free. I have been thinkig about making my own drippers.
    I have #8 drippers.

    Ted
     
  3. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Not to steal your thread but where can I get this Trim E206? Do you think NAPA may have it? Thanks for your response. I've had a Stewart machine for three years and have never fired it up. Have been collecting lead and had a bunch of shot. I had heard that it was hard to produce No. 9 shot and didn't purchase drippers for it for that reason. I have 8's and 7 1/2's is all. I keep reading up so when I get started I will know what to do. LOL Jackie B.
     
  4. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    What is E-206 oil and where can I buy some?
     
  5. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    First question are you SURE you did not get some of the newer zinc wheel weights into your mix (Was this working in the past and then suddenly went bad)

    Secondly Quick test clean your machine thoroughly then use a run of lead as close to pure as you can get it and measure your product. Heating the drippers only makes the size problem worse because the shot size is based on a certain volume of flow through a specific opening to form the drop a certain size. If this works with lead you can experiment with mixing lead and wheel-weights. For me in bullet-making anything over 50%lead 50% wheel-weights became problematic in the casting.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  6. Chipmaker

    Chipmaker Active Member

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    Here we go again.....Zinc 787F Lead 631F you really have to be using a torch and being pretty non observant to melt zinc wheel weights in with lead weights
     
  7. Chipmaker

    Chipmaker Active Member

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    when you get larger size than you should with the drippers your usually not hot enough on the lead temp, biggest problem with small non temperature controlled shot makers.
     
  8. jws123

    jws123 TS Member

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    The coolant is Trim E-206, you can by on line http://www.amazon.com/Master-Chemical-E206-1-Cutting-Fluid/dp/B002KH814S

    Google Trim E206, find the home page for the manufacture, they have a distributor list by state.

    Before I started I cleaned the drippers.
     
  9. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Do you just mix E206 with water or what? Price per gallon is close to $35.00. Did you use 1 gallon to 20 gallons of water. Jackie B.
     
  10. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Here are some pic's of zinc wheel weights that I picked out of the WW's. If you are not sure if it is or isn't zinc just get a pair of wire cutters and try to clip the weight. If it does cut through the weight its lead. If it doesn't its zinc. The last pic is lead as you can see the wire cutter did cut through.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    So, this Trim-206E works better than antifreeze? Because, I'm having problems with antifreeze. How does it clean off the shot. with just water, or does one have to do something in addition to a water wash?
     
  12. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Chipmaker & Auctioneer are correct when speaking of PURE zinc, but much of what we deal with is ALLOYS

    Check out the 'Antimony Man' - he gives great info, albeit very technical

    http://www.theantimonyman.com/testingmetals.htm

    Oversimplified, when you alloy two or more metalls together you change the melting point - it can go up or down, depending on the metals and the % of each in the alloy. Sounds really weird, but science bears this out.

    The big issue for shot making is the 'stick on' type weight - fairly soft (they are mostly lead), but are alloyed with zinc (and perhaps other metals) - typically the presence of these is noted when you get 'rainbow' colors in your metal (typically blues and purples). These will melt at lower temperature (below that of pure lead) and for some reason will interfere with the flow of the liquid metal as it passes through the drippers (I suspect density change but no one has addressed this specific issue from a scientific point of view, so I remain uncertain).

    NOTE: There was another thread a few months ago where someone was using these stick on weights for shot making with no problems, but he was pouring molten metal directly from the crucible into the shotmaker's ladle. As an experiment Chipmaker might be convinces to try this in his Binford 6000 shot making set up...

    I have a second small crucible and use the stick on (truck weights) to make sinkers - the fish do not seem to mind...

    David D
     
  13. jws123

    jws123 TS Member

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    I don't know if the Trim is better than antifreeze, it is working for me. It is a lot cheaper than antifreeze. Go to the web site and see if there is a distributor near you, it is a commonly used product by machinist. $30 for enough to make 20 gallons is worth a try (mix at 5% or 1 quart to 5 gallons water). You don't need to wash it off the shot, just let it dry, no oil or film, if you want to, wash it off with water. My shot is not perfect but it breaks a lot of clay.
     
  14. WTW

    WTW Member

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    Ok fellows, I just ran 50 pounds of shot in cold water. It was the best shot I ever made, round with no dimples. I did have a few pop corns.Maybe a dozen or so.I can't beleave it. Did not do any cleaning just spread it out to dry. I'll try some more tomorrow.

    Ted
     
  15. plinker611

    plinker611 Member

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    if the weights have zn on them in any combination mc-zn,al-zn ect,stick on or not,stay away from them,zn means zink(see above pics),mark
     
  16. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    WTW, How was the next batch?

    Ajax
     
  17. WTW

    WTW Member

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    Ajax, I ran another 60 lbs. and did not have as good a turn out. I had two nozzles mess up and alot of pop-corn. I got about 55 lbs out of this batch. Time to try some thing else. I was also play with the drop distance which flated the shot out when it hit the water.

    I'll find some thing that works sooner or later.

    Ted

    With STS'S selling for $67.99 a flat and a $20.00 rebate per flat it almost as cheep to shoot new ones.
     
  18. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    I have found that the level/amount of melt in the ladle is critical to the roundness and size of the shot. I talked at length to Mr. Stewart ( I suggest you do too, he is a great guy) and he told me to be sure to have about 3/4" of "dry" area at the back or high end of the ladle. This makes a big difference for me. If the ladle gets too full the streams run too fast and the shot is not as round or consistant in size. I watch the drippers on the inside of the ladle and try to keep the level where the last thread edge or nut is just visible above the mix but NEVER let the melt level get in the dripper body. That causes clogged drippers. Might try that. Ladle depth seems to have more effect on the shot than leveling the ladle or drop distance (within limits of 1/4 to 3/8"). I run wheelweights and get a few zinc ones in the mix. I use a flat scraper while running shot to keep the top of the fluid clean and I think more importantly, scrape the BOTTOM of the ladle about every 15# or so. You will be amazed what comes off the bottom. I also use a hot plate with a small skillet to pre heat ingots and this seems to help the run process. TINKER---TINKER---TINKER!!!

    I started with crop oil and did not like it for what I am doing. I switched to Antifreeze and have had better results. My set up now has a recirc-separator and coolant fan built in. It's beome a two man operation. I had bad results with graphite earlier and found that I was to blame by using too much. Now I mix 24# of cleaned shot with 1/8 T spoon of graphite and viberate for 30 min in a Dillon big cleaner and the shot is exceptional. As soon as I can figure out how to make and post a video, I will. It's taken me a year and about a ton and a half of shot to get the result I was after.
     
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