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Need help with hard right targets!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by WoodsonEnt, Jun 22, 2008.

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  1. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    I have been in a slump as of late. Well it has just been on post 3, 4, and 5, with right angle and extreme rights. I am a right handed shooter and have never had problems with these targets until 2 months ago. It started with an occasional miss, and now I can't hit any. I have watched my singles scores of high 90's dip into mid 80's. I have been told that I am behind and shooting before I get to target. Any advice from anyone?

    Matt
     
  2. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    Matt:

    You are watching to many of the top notched shooters that shoot's fast and trying to duplicate them but that is not for everyone so go back to basic's and im sure even if the bird breaks futher out then im sure you will break more of them the speed comes with the more you shoot at them.

    So do you think I might have figured out some of the problem if not then maybe some one else will.

    Fog!!
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Matt- All we can do is make guesses and general comments about why some shooters miss hard right birds. You really need to figure out what your specific problem is and work out your own solution. Shooting behind the right hand bird is not a specific problem, it is the result of another problem. Possibly not seeing the bird clearly soon enough (gun too high?). Possibly you have convinced yourself that you can't hit right hand birds. Shooting 50 practice birds by yourself from post 5 might help. You could be swinging the gun away from your face (arm shooting) on right hand birds. A high elbow might help this.

    Try this tip, right now before you go the the next post. Stand up and take a normal stance you would at any post and swing your body to the right and left. Then with the heel of your right foot in place, move your right toe about 3/4 of an inch to the right and swing your body again. You should feel your body swinging to the right further and faster with the very slight toe movement.

    Do this a few times each day and convince yourself that you have solved the problem and you can now break all of the right hand birds.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Matt- We can only guess what your specific problem might be. Shooting behind right hand birds is not a specific problem, but rather the result of another problem. You might not be seeing the birds soon enough (gun too high), you might be swinging with your arms and not your lower body (arm shooting) or you may have simply convinced yourself that you can't hit right hand birds. Shooting 50 or more practice birds by yourself from post five might help.

    Try this right now before you go to another post. Stand up, look at something across the room and take your normal shooting stance. Next swing your body to the right and left. Then, without moving the heel of your right foot, move your right toes about 3/4 of an inch to the right and swing again.

    You have discovered a way to swing to the right faster and farther. Do this a few times each day and convince yourself that you can now break all of the right hand birds with this simple change. If you can convince yourself, it will work.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Check your eyes....might be a dominance problem. Happened to me in '05, been adjusting ever since.

    For more and better info, check out Phil Kiner's DVD, lots of great info in that department.

    Curt
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Good chance it is a vision problem. Shooting the bird with your left eye instead of your right eye. Try shooting these targets with a gun hold below the roof of the house. This will let you see the bird right away with your right eye and eliminate the cross firing. Also try shooting these birds with one eye for a while, this will get your brain used too using your right eye for aiming again. HMB
     
  7. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    You will get advice from everyone but the advice you need is from a good coach or a shooter standing with you and watching what your doing and seeing what is happening.

    Asking for an internet diagnosis and treatment is almost like going to your local butcher and complaining of headaches while asking him to be a neurological diagnostician for you and then asking him to be a neurological surgeon to fix the diagnosed problem.

    Good luck and ya know if your shooting behind them why dont you try and get a little farther ahead of them before you pull the trigger? If it were me and I was told I was shooting behind and shooting before I get to target I would, now this is only me but I would most likely begin to lead the bird a little more and not shoot until I was farther ahead of the target but heck you already probably know that since you've been told that you shooting behind the bird.

    Good luck and let us know how it all turns out ... you can do it, one bird at a time ... you can do it ... break em all and be happy or be happy while trying to break them all but no matter what ... be happy and be well.
     
  8. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    Typically, when I miss two in a row, my left eye has started to take over from my dominant right eye. It happens so sublety that I don't know why I missed, until I realize I didn't SEE the bird clearly. Your gun might be in the way of SEEING the bird leave the house, which may put you in a "catch-up" mode. HTH
     
  9. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    "I have been told that I am behind and shooting before I get to target. Any advice from anyone?"
    Yes, my advice is to get out IN FRONT of the target before you pull the trigger.
    Seriously.... do not rush the shot, the hard angles are actually moving away from the shooter at a slower rate than the straight-aways are (even though their airspeed is identical). You have more time on the angle shots than you think; they only APPEAR to be moving faster. Make yourself slow down and pull out in front of those targets. No, don't "make" yourself...FORCE yourself.
    You can't let yourself fear them, either. You must learn to cherish the hard angles...WISH for the hard angles...ASK for them:"Please, give me a hard right on this station 5, so I can CRUSH it!" Trap is 98% mental.
     
  10. lakecrisco

    lakecrisco TS Member

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    Sometimes when you get in a funk like that you can become too deliberate. I can recall my Dad telling me 'you're trying too hard, just shoot the target!'. If you are seeing the target and you are not breaking the target, obviously you are not shooting where you are looking. If you are behind, that could be a product of 'arming' it like Pat stated or the fact that you are letting your eyes get ahead of your gun(in a hurry,too deliberate). Could be stopping the gun a bit to SEE the target break. Heck, who knows. At the end of the day, unless the gun mount, sight picture and the MOVE are the same every time....well, there you go. That's nothing new but seems to be the root of all our problems. Somehow, after thousands of times doing it right, we still tend deviate from that at times. That is amazing to me. Just relax and shoot like you used to and know you can. Don't get so deliberate or eager to break the rights....shoot em like you shoot the lefties....relaxed and confident.
     
  11. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

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    Matt, you didn't mention if you close one eye when shooting, but if that is the case you might just be losing a crucial part of the field of view that you need to identify where the bird is going in time for you to react soon enough. Whether one-eyed or two, holding a lower gun on station 5 will help to let you pick up the target more quickly. I hold just off the right corner of the traphouse on 5 which seems to work for me. .....Rick
     
  12. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    I have the same problem on post one and I am a left handed shooter. The hard angles from the corner posts give the shooter the "illusion" that they are moving far faster than the other targets from the other posts. Actually, the target is getting further away from you at a slower rate that from the other posts at less steep angles. A straight away bird is actually moving away from you at the fastest rate. Your brain goes into overdrive and in a desperate attempt to get to this bid that is going to get away unless you shoot really fast, you lift your head and or stop your gun and shoot high and or behind it. I still miss these birds from time to time but I have found that after I slowed down a little and let the intital shock of the hard angle wear off, my breaks got a lot better and the misses fewer and farther apart. The bird cannot out run your shot pattern so give it a little extra time, keep yur head screwed to the stock and make sure you are out in front of the bird before you pull or release. A lot of what we do is based on timing. The brain says it's time to shoot and does not care if we are in front of the bird or not. Slowing down on these angle targets and giving yourself an extra half second will make a big difference.

    Jeff
     
  13. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Matt,

    Several possibilities come to mind:

    Your stance - It may be such that you may be arm-swinging toward the end of your swing because your body has locked up. Try rotating your swing clockwise a little.

    You may be glancing back at the rib, which will cause your swing to slow.

    You may be arm-swinging, which can move the comb away from your cheek and cause shooting behind hard rights for a right-handed shooter. Drooping or lowering your right shoulder can add to the problem.

    To add to whatever the base cause might be, you now have a problem with your attitude. When an extreme right appears, you expect to miss it - and as a result, you do. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

    Rollin
     
  14. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Are you a one eyed or two eyed shooter?
     
  15. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Go to the butcher ...
     
  16. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    I am a two eyed shooter.

    Matt
     
  17. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    One possibility that has not been discussed is trigger pull weight. If it has gotten too light you will be short shooting hard rights. For some reason this does not seem to affect left going targets for right-handers. Replacing a broken spring, as in a Perazzi trigger, with a new one with lower tension will do the same thing.

    If it were an eye dominance issue only, you would be having more problems with left targets and straightaways.
     
  18. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    OK, simple test. Smear some chapstick on your left lens. Use plenty because the goal is not to block out the bead, it is to block out the target. Set the trap to throw rights. However, you need to get your gun hold down to the house and outside of where the targets emerge from the roofline. You will now be able to actually "see" your lead on the right targets. However, DO NOT LOOK for the lead. Make a smooth agressive move along the target flight path and just remember what you saw as you fired. You should be able to see your bead/barrel ahead of the target.

    If your problem is an occasional change in eye dominance, this will help. The fact that your problem is new means something has changed and your eyes are the number 1 suspect.

    The three chronic killers of trap scores are intermittant loss of eye dominance, flinching and too low POIs.

    You should also get Phil Kiner's latest video. It is very insightful.
     
  19. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    you could also try shooting from post '6' as suggested from Mr. Kiner if you club will allow it.

    I usually find two problems, the first is I start to bury my cheek into the stock because I'm 'trying harder' and I then tell my self I have to relax, get the same sight picture and keep it that way.

    The second issue I find is a subtle flinch. I try to concentrate on keeping my head on the stock and not lifting it just before the shot goes off.

    Generally, shooting behind the target means you are stopping your swing before pulling the trigger, for whatever reason. How do you know you are shooting behind? Can you see the shot string or is the wad being confused with the shot string? At my club, we have tall trees in the background and you cannot see the shot string. The only time I have seen it was when I was shooting in Idaho against a blue sky.

    Another idea, try some practice sessions on a skeet field, especially post 4 where you have to keep the gun moving and have lots of lead (about 4') to connect.

    Lastly, the type of lead you use will also have an effect. By type I mean sustained lead or pull-through. There are different sight pictures for each style. I wonder if you have subtly changed your shooting style without recognizing it, or some bad habit has creeped in (usually). Like what was stated above, get a good experienced would be the quickest way to find out.

    Mike
     
  20. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Try blacking out your beads with dry erase marker. This will help eliminate "bead checking" if that is your problem. Bead checking is looking back at the beads just before you pull or release the trigger. It is the thing that Rollin suggests you may be doing.
     
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