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NEED HELP!!! shooting in front of targets

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Beretta Young Gun, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    Desperately need help, this is absolutly driving me nuts. I'm having trouble breaking long range shoot off targets. I've had multiple other shooters telling me I'm shooting waaaaaaaay in front of shoot off targets. I'm talking anywhere from 30yd to 100yd targets with some pretty extreme angles, hard right OR left, AND IM IN FRONT OF THEM!!! I've tried just about everything I know to do to break those targets and I can't do it! I'm not over, not under, not behind, I'm in front. My line targets are spot on....just crush 27 yard targets. I've tried changing hand hold, trying different shells(I'm all the way down to 1oz of #6 shot going 1050fps and I'm still in front of 100yd targets. According to the spectators I'm a consistant 3 ft in front of a shoot off target no matter the distance. I'm so baffled I'm ready to quit shooting. I know it isn't the new zoli because I was having the same trouble with my previous Ljutic, bt-99, and bt-100. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! BYG
     
  2. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Your brain needs to see a successful sight picture. You just need to practice, and keep changing things until you break a target, then start trying to repeat what you saw. Pretty soon your brain computer will just known when it looks right, and tell you to pull the trigger. Mark
     
  3. sterlingworth

    sterlingworth Active Member

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    Your over thinking the problem.Try useing pigeon loads,and shoot a 16 yard target.Pigeon loads are 1&1/4 shot 3&1/4 drams powder [1220] fps. I take it these are shoot offs for Annies& the like.Worked for me over 40 years. Good luck...Ray
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    BYG,

    You are shooting at targets 100 yards away and the spectators know where your shot pattern is in relation to the target. Are they getting a message from above? I suggest you try to hit 30 yard targets and gradually work your way out to long range targets. HMB
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    4 barrel widths is about 33' at 100 yards. How long is a bus?

    On a good sporting course there is usually a 60 yard crosser. We call it a "Suburban" lead.
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    BYG, when you speak of "spectators" what comes to my mind is people who are not standing directly behind you and looking as closely over your shoulder as possible. Those that are not doing that - looking right over your shoulder - must be completely disregarded; they neither do know or can know where you are shooting. Some may even think that they are "reading target breaks" if you can believe it! All that is, or course, total nonsense and you can't listen if you intend to keep your sanity (or hit any targets.)

    When you are shooting at 100-yard targets, there is no pattern center so luck must play the biggest role. I wouldn't worry.

    Consider this....let's say, for the sake of getting somewhere, that you haven't heard any advice at all and are just missing. Let's start at your gun. Choke full or extra-full. That goes without saying.

    How high does it shoot?

    1. If it shoots pretty high at 27 yards, say 10 -15 inches, it will shoot higher and higher as the range increases. You might what to shooter lower, not less far ahead.

    2. If it shoots pretty lat at 27 yards, say just a couple of inches inches, it will shoot lower and lower as the range increases. You might what to shooter higher, not less far ahead.

    If that doesn't work and it really is simply you shooting too far ahead, just don't shoot too far ahead. The gun has no movement-power of its own; you are the boss; don't let it get so far ahead. Think before every shot, "get what looks like a reasonable amount ahead." If you mostly miss, it must be that what you consider "reasonable" is not right. Try more or less. You will find the general area.

    You still won't hit a very high percentage since shotguns are out of range for clay targets starting at 40 yards. Out of range, that is, for very-high-percentage success. You shoot a pattern of anything at 50 or 60 yards and take a look. Luck begins to exert a strong influence right away after 45 yards, really.

    Good luck,

    Neil
     
  7. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    Lead is determine by how fast you swing. I have to show a different picture going to the right. I swing slower going right. Going left it looks like I am shooting right at the targets. As a right hander I swing faster to the left. Start at the 30 yard line and lock the trap on the most troublesome target. Shoot it at least 25 times. Move back 5--10 yards and continue. If you have access to lights, the shot will show up. Have some one stand directly behind you. Been shooting annies for many years. #6 shot is the shot of choice due to its sustained energy. 1-1/4 to 1-3/8 oz shot will work much better at the extreme distances. 1-1/8 # 6 at 1500 FPS will also work good. Patterns will suffer at extreme distances.

    Clyde
     
  8. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Remember you still have to look at the bird to break it. When you start worrying about how much lead you have, usually you are bead, or barrel checking. The results are the same at any yardage. I think it is more of a timing issue. Are you possibly flinching?

    Set up a video camera and watch it in slow motion, like Neil shows. The spectators telling you where you are shooting are about as reliable as you yourself are, at where you are shooting. Some times they may see the shot cloud, but at that distance how can they tell what distance the cloud is compared to the crossing target. Mostly just a good guess, IMO. I thought most misses are behind.
     
  9. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Consider that at 100yds. what was a hard left or right target has slowed in velocity considerably. If you are trying to match gun speeds at 30 and 100yds you probably are shooting ahead of the 100 yarders and behind the 30 yarders.

    Shooting third or fourth man in Annies it may be helpful to stay behind the target until your shot, then attack it.

    Robert
     
  10. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Add 1/2 inch spacer to your recoil pad. I will help you tonite at Charlie's use your regular 800-X 1 1/8th oz load and I will watch you shoot from the shootoff pad.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  11. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Good points Robert. I say watch the bird, and let the most powerful, fastest, and most capable computer at obtaining and processing bits of information known to mankind do the calculating. It is also hard wired to the other important features needed to shoot the target. LOL
     
  12. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    BYG is a fast shooter, points very quick, damn accurate

    I am waiting for the Fede4x truck to bring me my new Bbl, it's on the truck for todays delivery.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  13. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    you have either changed your barrel speed, not holding onto the gun tight enough (Become lazy)when going to the target or you are starting cross fire problem that rears its head on the longer target. Firing when the off eye takes over will put in front of the target flying one direction and behind the other, as suggested close your off eye. Have Gary watch your barrel when he stands behind you, it will tell alot more trying to watch the shot cloud unless you're shooting nickle plated shot.

    Surfer
     
  14. 4th. down

    4th. down Active Member

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    FWIW, was having a problem with long crossers - too far in front. Brad Kidd said to get control of the tgt. not letting the tgt. control you. How? By connecting to the target at your hold point - touch the target with your muzzle and then ease on out. It works for me and obviously for him also. Try it for a box of shells and see if you can improve.
     
  15. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If what you say is accurate ( how did you come to that conclusion ?) I would probably ask management to speed the targets up just a little bit to make you right in the center ... If they play with the speed just a little at a time until you are centering the targets your score will increase considerably ... If you don't tell anyone that they are catering to you and setting the targets to your liking just in case it has an adverse effect on their scores there shouldn't be a problem ... The only other suggestion I would have is to slow down just a little bit which could have the same result if you do it right or have someone weld an extra inch on the end of the barrel, which will slow you down also ... Then there is the speed of the shells ,can be altered so they work best for you accordingly with your speed (Instead of 1200 fps haven them make them 1142 fps and see if that works ) ... If none of this works let me know and I will get into it even more and come up with a few more solutions that might work for you, if you combine a few of them and make them work for you, your problems will be solved ...


    If welding an inch on the barrel isn't enough or proves to be to much cut off or add a 1/2 inch at a time until you are dead centering the targets ... This isn't Rocket Science even though it may seem like it at at times ... The longer barrel will slow you down because it takes longer to swing it and the shorter barrel will have the opposite effect ... You may get down to even smaller incriments once you see that you are hitting the targets hard but not quite hard enough ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  16. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    Well it looks like I have SEVERAL things to try over the next few weeks. One of the most intriging is the cross sighting. Definately not something i thought but i have some cross site eliminators. Ill give them a try tonight. THANKS GENTS!!!
     
  17. OneShooter

    OneShooter Member

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    To see where you are shooting, use the new AA Trackers. The wad goes with the shot. One thing I didn't see suggested was maybe the use of barrel weights? (If anyone with more experience would like to disagree, feel free to do so)
     
  18. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I seriously seriously doubt your shooting in front of your target if they're call targets! Remember that most helpful authority's generally give the same reply at every club that exists.

    If you think your out in front enough, try doubling your lead.
     
  19. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    Pheasantmaster I'm with you. In my entire shooting career I have never shot in front of a target. Usually if I miss I'm 100% just behind the target. However at all 5 clubs I shoot at the decision is unanimous that I'm in front of a target. Normally if 1 or 2 people tell me I'm in front I would disagree but EVERY single person that has stood behind me and watched me shoot tells me I'm in front of a target. Its hard to disbelieve 40 different people telling you the same thing. BYG
     
  20. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    BYG, you got some good advice on this thread. I'm going to add some numbers to some the advice, and offer some of my own. First, I'll assume you are shooting ATA legal targets, just from further back. If so, there are some optical illusions you should be aware of.

    First, if you are standing on the 40 yard line, the targets are rising a lot faster than they look. At the end of their trajectory, they are literally dropping like a rock. If you have your gun set up to shoot high, you are going to have a problem with long range targets that are flat or dropping.

    I used to shoot a 22" high POI at 40 yards. From the 27 yard line, I could not hit a dropping Annies target to save my life. Here are some numbers to illustrate the problem.

    For a gun that shoots 8" high @ 40, the POI will be 9"h@50, 9"h@60, 7.5"h@70 and 4.3"h@80 using 7 1/2 shot launched at 1200fps.

    For a 16"h POI at 40, the POI is 19"h@50, 21"h@60, 21.5"h@70 and 20"h@80.

    My 22"h POI get climbing even past 80. I had to aim waaay under targets at the top of their trajectory, and at the dirt halfway down the field at the end of their trajectory.

    For long range shooting, I find I do much better with a flatter shooting gun.