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need help on a 280 ackley imp

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by duckeye, Oct 8, 2009.

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  1. duckeye

    duckeye TS Member

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    I came into a 280 ackley imp and need some input on the best loads and max loads for this cartridge I intend to use mostly 140 and 160 grain bullets for this gun The main thing I guess I need is the best powders for this calibre Also I understand that it is safe to use commercial 280 ammo in this gun in a pinch..

    Thanks
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Google "280 Ackley Improved" and you'll find numerous sites with helpful info. The 280 Remington is the cartridge that benefits the most from the Ackley improvement.

    I have a .243AI and the benefits are numerous - higher velocity, longer case life and (usually) better accuracy.

    Ed
     
  3. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    If you have a claw extractor.. 280 ammo will surfice in a pinch.. You will have excessive headspace and DO NOT reuse the brass.. My memoory was IMR 4831 worked well with the heavier bullets and BL-C 2.. I don't know if it's still made??? Max. loads are a function of bore,throat,how deep you seat your bullets,and many other things.. I would start with 280 loads and work up.. I'll look up data in P.O. Ackley's book tonight for you.. That was my starting point some 30 years ago.. All Good.. Mike

    BTW.. you might be able to set the barrel back and have a regular 280.. or rechamber it to a 7 Mag.. Either might be a more viable option than the custom ammo plan..
     
  4. duckeye

    duckeye TS Member

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    The chambering was done by Jarrett in SC so it should have been done right as he has a very good name.it is SS and it is a 24"barrel and it is supposed to group at 3/4 or less at 100 yds It is pillar bedded and glassed so it should shoot with the best I have 200 new 280 cases to fire form as soon as I get a good load for it someone somewhere has one that they use so I should get some feedback on it.

    Thanks
     
  5. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    If you are looking for a load to fire form your brass with, 50 gr of 4350 (H or IMR) behind a 120 or 130 gr bullet (cheapest) will give enough pressure (about 40K psi) for good results. The standard 280 Rem brass should contact the neck dia of your A.I. chamber and give sufficient headspace (possibly light contact) to allow firing. Good Luck!

    AndyH ;-)
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I had built a .257 Ackley Improved and the experiment was a glowing success. One of the benefits was that one could fire form brass by shooting .257 Roberts safely. In a pinch and in the boonies I could even hunt with the Roberts round safely and with adequate accuracy. I only bring it up to suggest you find out from experts whether you can fire form your brass with a current cartridge as I did - much better than custom making the ammo yourself.....breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  7. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    PBB..........

    <em>"If you have a claw extractor.. 280 ammo will surfice in a pinch.. You will have excessive headspace and DO NOT reuse the brass."??????????</em>

    You might want to rethink that statement and correct IT.
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Sorry 221.. Until I know EXACTLY what he has.. I stick by my statement.. Some versions were made to be formed from 30-06 brass.. leaving enough brass to headspace correctly out of the correct loading dies.. Pull the trigger.. 1 piece of fireformed brass.. some were not.. A Remington 700..might let the brass go forward.. the firing pin pushed the brass into.. what would be considered excessive headspace.. upon firing..the neck grabbed the barrel..and the rear of the brass streched to meet the bolt.. If you cut these cases in half..long ways.. you see a distinct thinning..or line..where the case might come apart in a reloading or two.. I've been there.. I've seen it.. My statement is not up for grabs.. I thank you for your concerns but I've seen over the years so many Ackley????????? improved shells.. or at least.. the barrel was stamped that.. I think the claw extractor held the brass to the bolt face.. so it was easier to fireform brass..and have a good reloadable shell remaining..

    Years ago.. 3 fired shells to Huntington Die Specialties resulted in the proper dies for loading.. Today.. without correct spec's.. who has a clue what you really own????

    I would neck 30-06 brass up to say .338.. and then neck size just enough to close the bolt with a push.. I'd fire 10.. and send the best 3 or 4 to HDS..
    I feel pretty sure.. if the chamber would not safely accept a 280 Remington.. a extra neck expander would come with the die set..

    I'm sure many out here have owned a 280 Ackley Improved.. None of this is new to them..
    All Good.. Mike
     
  9. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

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    I have both Ackley reload manuals,he does not list a 280 AI, he does refer to a 280 Remington improved very simailar to a 7mm/06 AI or very similar to several others (his words)the 7mm/06 AI is a 30-06 case necked down to 7mm and blown out.

    I shoot several AI cartridges and am a huge Ackley fan. I would suggest using a forming load in a necked down 30/06 case to fire form. read as light load. this would yeild a shorter case, or pulling some bullets on some 280 rem. brass and reduce the loads,after neck sizing to get the proper tension on the bullet.

    There have been several rounds called Ackley Improved that Ackley himself did not work up, it was a pretty simple thing to copy his neck angle and case taper and call it AI do it being a copy of his work.

    If you would like PM me and I will send what load data I have that may help you.

    PerazziBig Bore is right on the money. also keep in mind when ackley listed a max load he states in his manual that it is 1 grain away from blowing out the primer, that was with the batch of powder he had at his lab at the time, work up slow and watch your primers for pressure signs

    Rick
     
  10. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    duckeye,

    If you have know of anyone that has any Varmint Hunter magazines, you need to call them and borrow the mags. This magazine was mailed to members of the Varmint Hunter Association. There was a writer in them (when I was a member) that was an "expert" on the .280AI. It wrote numerous articles about this cartridge. He included loading data. I am going to see if I can find any of my issues. If I do, I will PM you and send you it.

    Matt Woodson
     
  11. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    pbb........

    Then he needs to have the firearm inspected and the headspace checked to verify that it's safe........when people come on here and ask for advice a light should go off.....giving advice and making statements like yours above is reckless and coming back with an excuse that he might not have a 280 ackley improved makes it even worse.


    Shooting 280 in a 280 ackley improved will not have excess headspace.... period.....That's how you form the brass......expanding the neck and sizing part of it down to form a false shoulder is for IE.....a 6mmBR to a 6mmBRX. If he has a chamber that will not fire a factory 280 without excess headspace, he has a problem and better know what he is doing. if you do that false shoulder trick in this case you will collapse the shoulder.


    THERE IS NO PET LOAD ADVICE WHEN IT COMES TO RIFLES......he needs to ask these questions on www.6mmbr.com or www.benchrest.com
     
  12. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Expanding the brass and necking down came out of Ackleys book.. That's how its done.. But seeing a known gunsmith made this gun.. I'd call him for information on case forming and loading data.. and possibly a set of dies..
     
  13. curly1946

    curly1946 TS Member

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    make a chamber cast and you will know excatly what you have.
     
  14. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If anyone is going to be reloading for non factory cartridges, the better learn how and why to measure headspace..... applying trapshooting logic to metalic cartridges will get you hurt, after all it will even get a trapshooter hurt
     
  15. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Not everyone knows how to do a chamber cast..nor has the tools to properly measure the casting.. Someone needs to print that too.. I'd call Jarrett.. he can quickly tell you everything correctly.. that we are just guessing about..
     
  16. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    pbb....

    You use <em>"we"</em>.......You may be quessing but the <em>"WE"</em> were not.
     
  17. Taxidermy

    Taxidermy Active Member

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    Save your gun from excess use and by Nosler brass, I have a Roger Greene 280 AI in a G 33/40 Custom mauser and it shoots great with anything you load. I tried fire forming 280 brass and works good but the Nosler brass is perfect. Nosler will tell you what to load with there bullets powder wise, taken many head of game with this rifle. thanks Ronnie
     
  18. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Duckeye,

    Take a piece of your new 280 brass and with no bullet, powder or primer chamber it in the rifle.

    All going well, and being a Kenny Jarret built rifle it should go well, the case will chamber a little firmly and inspection of the case will reveal a small ring on the very top of the shoulder near the junction of the shoulder and neck.

    If that is the case just load a standard middle to upper end load (near maximum say 1.5 grains below) for the standard 280 and shoot them to form the brass.

    If you do not get firm chambering and a mark on the case the brass doesn't headspace properly for safe fireforming. As PerazziBigBore said, improperly formed IMPROVED cases might look OK to start with but will result in thinning of the brass ahead of the solid web which will result in case head separations. This is true of all cases in actual fact, proper headspacing when resizing is an important consideration that most do not properly understand.

    If the cases don't chamber firmly call Kenny Jarret and ask him about the chamber he set up in that rifle.

    With proper headspacing cases need little trimming and last far many reloads. I shot a 6PPC, for which brass is fireformed like the 280 IMP, and in a strong custom action with loads up around 70,000 PSI and full length sizing every time to a close headspace the brass needed a light trim after about 15 loadings and I eventually threw it out for a fresh batch, just because, it would have lasted much longer but 20 - 25 loads seemed like enough !

    MOST rimless improved cases, including the 280 IMP, are designed so that the standard brass headspaces at the neck to shoulder junction in the IMPROVED chamber. If the fresh brass doesn't chamber firmly at that point the chamber has not been cut right or you have a unusually short batch of brass, neither is a good place to be.

    Some will blow the entire shoulder forward and require sizing operations to form a false shoulder for headspacing before fireforming the brass.

    Bryce
     
  19. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    If the arm is correctly chambered according to the way Parker Ackley designed his Improved cartridges, the arm must NOT close on the GO gauge.

    Buy or borrow a 280 Rem GO gauge. If your rifle's bolt will not close on the GO gauge, you may fire form 280 Rem rounds or fire factory fodder with impunity. Since you know who chambered your arm, you might contact him and verify this info.

    I have, in the past, loaded bullets out to where they jam in the rifling to hold the cartridge for fire forming if headspace was in doubt. The 25 Gibbs I had built decades ago was not a wildcat in that no factory round could be used in it. I necked 270 WCF brass to create a false shoulder, trimmed to length, and let 'er rip. The 25 Gibbs was incredible, but is a real barrel burner.

    These minimum taper rounds will typically blow primers every shot with an overload and STILL NOT DISPLAY ANY OTHER EXTREME PRESSURE SIGNS.

    Ackley Improved and Gibbs rounds like heavier bullets and a dump truck full of slow burning powder. They are not efficient with lighter bullets.

    Likely your 280 Ackley will perform well with 160 gr and up bullets and a large quantity of H4831, or H1000.

    Enjoy your wildkitty!
     
  20. BryceNZ

    BryceNZ TS Member

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    Coach,

    With all respect .....

    How the rifle closes on a GO gauge is of less importance than how the rifle closes on the actual brass that he is planning on fireforming in the rifle.

    A GO gauge gives you an indication of how the chamber is set up, the fit of the actual brass is the acid test since that is what needs to headspace properly for safe and proper forming.

    I have formed brass for a 17 Ackley Hornet, 17 Mach IV, 22-250AI, 6mm PPC, made 17 Remington brass out of 223 and 5.6 x 50, shortened 223 to 17 Mach IV, neck turned 17's, 22's and 6mm's etc etc and if one understands the needs of brass fit in the chamber a GO gauge is irrelevant, I have never owned a GO gauge for any rifle ever.

    Bryce
     
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