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Need help on 40 to 60 yard crossing shots

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by leadhead358, Sep 30, 2008.

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  1. leadhead358

    leadhead358 Member

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    OK. I know I'm leaving myself wide open BUT, I need some info or help be it shells or technique. I shoot sporting clays and have a heck of a time with long crossing singles and true pairs. I shoot #8's 1 1/8 oz 1300 to 1350 fps. I have no problem with birds that fly above, below or beside the stations, just the long crossers. I shoot with both eyes open. My buddies tell me to lead the bird 4 to 6 feet, but I dont under stand how to do this when I try to watch the front of the bird. If I try to lead it 4 to 6 feet then I'm not watching the bird. HELP its driving me frickin nuts. I shot this past Sunday hit 32 out of 50 and the 18 I missed were on 3 stations with long true pairs. Octobers stations have 6 out of 10 stations with long crossers. Thanks Tom
     
  2. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Tom,
    I have the same problem leading a bird by that much, seems weird and a hard concept to get in my pea sized brain. I have had sucess by getting on the forntedge of the bird and then just pushing the barrels forward and pulling the trigger I keep the target behind the end of the barrel and pull the trigger it works for me I've improved my scores on hard long crossing shots.
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I can't tell you what the correct method is for these shots but I can tell you what works best for me.

    I pass through the target I lock on the target with my eyes and coming from behind the target I try to generate as much gun speed as I can when the gun and the target come together I pull the trigger and try to maintain the gun speed or even accelerate until I find what works best.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    Skeet targets on station 4, at 22 yards require a lead of four feet. At 60 yards, which is nearly three times longer, the lead would be closer to thirteen feet.

    You should be watching the target, swinging through to the correct lead, then breaking the bird, with the bead in your peripheral vision. Whether you shoot a sustained lead, or swing through, you have to get to the proper lead.

    Dennis
     
  5. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    butt,belly,beak, bang follow through. My dads constant input when we where bird hunting. might help?
     
  6. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    I was taught that maintaining a sustained lead is the best swing method. Todd Bender even recommends it for the shorter distances on skeet. With the sustained swing, the gun is moving the same speed as the target everytime. Determining the lead would then be "trial & error" until the correct distance is needed.

    Using a swing through method, the gun can start the swing at different speeds, and by the time you pass the target and get the 13 feet you would need, the gun may be traveling too slow (shoot behind) or if you got a late start, the gun could be moving too fast (shot ahead). It's just difficult to try and maintain the exact same speed on a swing through.

    Also, use your full choke. The full choke will give you a slightly longer shot string, and as long as the gun is point in the same path as the target, if you do happen to over swing, the tail end of the string may help.

    Doug
     
  7. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    leadhead, see if you can borrow a Dan Carlisle or Chris Batha sporting tape. Both describe how you estimate yardage and lead. That 13' lead their talking about on a 60 yard crosser is called a "suburban" lead. (you could fit a suburban between the barrel and the bird). It can be broke with a LM choke. Some estimate lead by the width of the barrel and some by feet at the target, or feet at the barrel, so be sure to understand what "feet" their talking about. Practice, practice, practice.
     
  8. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    These targets require such a great amount of lead that we get a "visual disconnect" between focus on the front edge of the target & the peripheral view of your rib & bead. As this occurs we tend to slow the gun to reestablish this visual connection & the next thing we hear is LOST! I think this happens most when using a sustained lead. I like to shoot long crossers by inserting from slightly below the target & in front, pace it for a moment, then pull away & fire.
     
  9. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily see the lead ,whatever it may be,until I have already made the shot. Just look at the target swing to and thru it.SPEED IS LEAD and most of the time it appears to me as if I shoot DIRECTLY at the target and the gun goes off AUTOMATICALLY. Trying to see leads causes more problems than just shooting at the target--it leads to bead/bbl checking,too much THINKING and slows you down. Also on shots of 60 yds you better be shooting the fastest shells allowed and the largest shot size allowed.
     
  10. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I have switched to a pull away for long shots. On a short range shot you can insert on the target then pull away to the proper lead and pull the trigger. As the distance increases the insertion point increases in front of the target before the same pull away and shot. One barrel width, to two barrel widths, etc. The pull away doesn't change, only the insertion point in front of the target. This works best for me. It has really helped me on long shots.
     
  11. deadapair17

    deadapair17 TS Member

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    Our eyes cannot see the leads required to break a fast 60 yard crosser in it's central vision. So, it is impossible to shoot it with a maintained or a sustained lead because the eye cannot do it. We have to find another way or method to do it. Probably, in my opinion, is the pull away, which has been recommended in above posts. Dan Carlisle's tape is the best on this subject. There is another method that works, but not as reliable. The intercept method will work, but must be executed to perfection. I guess any method requires perfection to "break them all". Only the best shooters can break this target every time. The shells that you choose probably don't matter much, any shell will break them. I use at least improved modified for choke. It might take 15 or 16 feet of lead at that distance, it will surprise you how much it will take. Keep practicing, Don
     
  12. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    There's a high tower at Hill Country and they throw a single, report pair, & nested pair. It was more than a year before I hit the first one of the %$&%$# things. The secret to hitting 'em is to give a School bus lead, remembering there's a shot string for 'em to fly into if you're out in front. One thing's sure, they won't fly into it if you're behind. ...mike
     
  13. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    deadapair is right. Unless we shoot thousands of practice targets per month so we can litterally memorize correct leads, the lead itself is best left to that incredible high speed computer that lies between our ears, the sub-concious mind. It has it's own memory and can calculate speed, distance, angle and lead with lightning speed and precision if we will just get out of it's way. The best way to do this is to track the target for just long enough that you can see the gun and clay are moving at the same speed. This should take about one second. Now all that is left is the lead itself, so now we are only trying to do one thing, establish the lead, instead of two things at the same time, catch the clay AND establish lead. Once the gun is moving at the same speed as the clay it is actually quite easy for the sub-concious mind to determine the correct lead. At this point you simply push the muzzle hard out in front of the clay, be willing to let go of it with your eyes as you have already established the line, and your sub-concious mind will reflexively pull the trigger for you when the lead is correct. After some success at doing this and you have "fed the computer" with good data it gets even easyer. This is part of the "trust your swing" of good wing shooting. You can't do this out of your concious mind. You must get your concious mind out of the loop, focus on the bird, swing the gun, then trust that your sub-concious mind is perfectly capable of knowing what the correct lead is without you having to visually see how many feet of lead "correct" is.
     
  14. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Buses, suburbans, sustained and maintained, and pull away leads. "Visual disconnects". Some of the trap guys got to be wondering what were talking about. 13'-16' leads? Yes indeed!
     
  15. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Most of the above advice is good but for a shooter to understand lead they should go to a skeet field.

    Practice station 3 and 5 both high and low house. When your hitting at least 75% 3 out of four then move back at five yard increments. This will help you to learn the targets at various ranges.

    Joe
     
  16. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I'd say more like pull away Mike.
     
  17. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    Great information. Long crossers are my Achilles heel. Love that sporting game almost as much as trap, but I hate those %&#! crossers.
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    When in doubt, double your lead. HMB
     
  19. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

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    Buy some tracer shells and than you can see where you are.
     
  20. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Me too Mike. That's why I don't even TRY to determine what the correct lead is with my concious mind. I have learned that my sub-concious mind is far better at determining that than my concious mind could ever be. It's a beautiful thing when I get out of my own way and trust. I'm riding the bird, I pull away and suddenly I know I have to be right THERE. I don't even know how many feet right there is, I just know with utter certainty that right there is where I have to be. That's my sub-concious talking to me. I've gotten into a bad habit during the last year of trying to establish lead with my concious mind and I've really paid for it. I've been way off with respect to my long bird success. This last weekend I shot games while suffering the after effects of a head cold. I have never felt more dis-connected from my gun. During my last game I determined to go back to what I knew worked. Suddenly I was crushing birds way out there, sending people out in two's and 3's, and came very close to winning a lot of money in that 5$ shoot. I finally ran out of steam and didn't close the deal at the end, but proved to myself that trying to establish lead on fast moving clays with my concious mind is an excercise in futility. Of course this may say much about the condition of my concious mind LOL.
     
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